To think this is an immature approach to voting?

OP, have you been vocal in who you are voting for and the shortcomings in anyone who votes for any other party?

I did one of these and the result was split equally between Labour, Lib Dems, Greens and Conservatives.

I think they are all shit and I won’t be voting.

I don't see why not. A decent teacher who believes in democracy should be able to be neutral. I'm a lefty through & through but I challenge my children in discussion & often put right wing positions to them so they develop their political & debatings skills & knowledge. In this context things like our voting system, history of democracy etc can absolutely be taught neutrally and I think they should be. The idea that democracy only works if we participate should be part of our national identity imo.

I think the description I have heard that I agree with most is :

"Democracy is an extremely imperfect system. Unfortunately we have yet to come up with anything better".

I don't think there are that many new ideas in politics. Just the old ones recycled again and again, or re labelled with new trendy terms.

That said, there is a myriad of information about the parties, the candidates, at everyone’s fingertips. In that context, her response is massively depressing; she might as well say, I can’t be arsed to find anything out.

This is interesting, because from 1923 onwards, voting turnout was roughly between 70 to 80% (fluctuating between 71.1 and 83.9%)

Voter turnout was at its highest in the 1950s.

From the year 2000, it dropped to 59% With the exception of the Referendum, it's been languishing at sixty odd percent. So in the past 20 years - the years of technology - it has dropped. The years whereby all the information is, indeed, at our fingertips.

Are people less engaged? Is there too much information out there? Has 24/7 news and Internet dulled our senses? Do younger people just feel disconnected, or are there too many other distractions? Do people just think "what's the point?" (there's been a rise in mental health issues during the same time period)

It could be a combination of all these things and more. It's sad to see, though.

Life has definitely become way more complicated.

Yep, fully get that, but as a point of democratic priniciple I believe that you should be allowed to refrain from voting.

It is sad but when most people today are picking the least worst option I think understandable. I feel even sorrier for our friends in the US if Biden doesn’t do the right thing.

this thrad, and the current poll status, is shocking.

My response to people like that is very simple, 'that's fine, but then you don't get to comment or complain about anything related to public policies, public services, legal system etc"

It's an absolute pet peeve of mine. Followed by people who say things like, "I think they're all equally terrible so I'm not voting" becuase those people are the FIRST to complain about poor public services.

From the amount of dross out through my door in the last few weeks you can ‘inform’ yourself quite easily from an a5 leaflet helpfully bullet pointed. It wouldn’t be my go to excuse because it makes you look lazy/airheaded.

Tbf I haven’t got much time for anyone who doesn’t engage in elections. It’s been less than 100 years since women got the vote and just over 100 years since economic status that disqualified men was abolished and people have completely closed their brains as to why it’s so important.

I know but I’d feel like it is not my place

This is so true - it is inevitable that people will often vote for trivial reasons.

Plato, in either The Republic or the Symposion can't recall which, had Democracy as his least favoured form of government for exactly this reason. He thought that it was dangerous to put the future of a city state in the hands of low information voters who voted on a trivial basis. He actually has a passage where he describes the 'demogogos' the demagogue who tells the people what they want to hear, makes them feel good, whilst hiding his true intentions. Then the skilly little demos votes for them and they get stuffed.

Not a fan of Plato's elitism tbh but he honestly could've been describing Donald Trump!!

I think the absence of PS teaching in schools is deliberate and not OK in what claims to be a democratic country.

Politics is an integral part of history, which when I was at school was not linear, but just cherry-picked to suit agendas. The It looked similar in 2020 when I homeschooled DD.

It could easily be taught neutrally and factually, with a basic curriculum and could be structured around the history of our systems and institutions.

But the powers that be have for decades chosen not to do this, because then teenagers would quickly spot the difference between what is presented to us and what actually happens, start asking difficult questions and start not voting for eg Tories.

Italian children are far more politically aware, learning about regional and national governments, constitutions and nationhood from age 9. I would be interested to know what happens in other European schools.

This is yet another area in which the UK is very backwards, compared to the Europe it claims to be so fond of and open to.

We had a Reopen Nominations, 'RON' option on all STV elections I've run or been involved with (student union, trade union etc). I can't really see how it would work on a national level, especially with a FPTP system.

You could still have voted as an overseas voter, by the way. Obviously too late now.

Sounds more like a good case for why the voting age should be lowered to me.

He takes an interest. What more is there to it ?

I find this so frustrating.
Doesn't vote, but probably complains about the state of the country / NHS / Pay etc...
Researching / reading up on Policies isn't that hard is it, it's just an excuse.

I also hate the "I'm not voting because they're all as bad as each other" excuse.

Such an entitled view to have IMO. My great Grandmother was involved in the protests 100 years ago, to allow women the right to vote.
I feel sad that in 100 years women don't realise how important their voices are.

There are sites with quizzes to work out who you should vote for. BBC might be one of

My son (aged 15 - and a clear example of why the voting age should definitely not be lowered!) is quite interested in politics. He is VERY black and white in his views and an awesome debater. His school have put on a six week after school session on politics - FOUR people attend.

The teacher declared my son “ridiculously well informed”. He is really not, he has just watched a bit of PMQ and expressed a preference for Lindsay Hoyle as Speaker - and I quote “despite the fact he is Labour”.

I totally agree it should be taught at school as general topic, along with basic economics. Ditch the gender bullshit they teach and replace it with that.

OP - it’s honest at least. And in fairness I have informed myself on all the candidates and parties and I still haven’t a bog’s notion of who to vote for.

It's extremely hard to imagine what social issues you care about that are not in any way affected by government policy. Everything from animal welfare to foreign wars and bin collections are decided ultimately by Parliament. What are these "social issues" that you care about that don't even warrant your desire for change or reform through the ballot box?

It's her choice. People are welcome to vote or not to vote for whatever reasons they want.

And they are allowed to vote for Rishi because he wears nice ties if they want to.

There are an awful lot of people out there that think they know a lot about politics but actually don't. For example a great many people who I have met who are extremely polarised about being pro EU seem to know surprisingly little about how it functions, its structures and the powers it does/doesn't have.

Their reasons for being pro seem to boil down largely because they were "doing all right jacks" while we were in it and don't fancy having to spend longer in passport control. Great reasons indeed.

Welcome to democracy.

Well if you used to behave like this then surely you understand 🤷‍♀️

I left the UK 6 years ago but if I was voting I would like to see a none of the above option and if more than a certain percentage of voters choose it then no one gets elected. I would probably use it unless there was a good independent or excellent party candidate
who I liked

It is immature but then i think spoiling ballot papers is also immature. It's only on Mn that posters almost gloat about spoiling their papers. I think irl the vast majority of people who bother turning up to vote actually constructively vote. I also think people irl make the most informed decision that they can without resorting to hysteria about women's spaces etc. I don't even think that the average person is aware/ are concerned about that point. I don't neccesarily agree with potentially allowing free rein for biological men to go into female spaces but my vote for Labour hinges on so much more than that.

In my experience people who try to persuade others to vote are usually actually only persuading people to vote either Labour or Green.

If the woman goes on to vote Reform I'm guessing OP wouldn't want her to use her vote.

Personally I'm happy to let people do what they want and don't accuse anyone of being lazy. Some people have bigger things than politics to worry about. I know when I've been severely depressed I didn't vote and no amount of "but just try harder to care! It affects everyone not just you" would have pulled me out of it.

That said, there is a myriad of information about the parties, the candidates, at everyone’s fingertips. In that context, her response is massively depressing; she might as well say, I can’t be arsed to find anything out.

You're assuming everyone has the luxury of time though. Takes a lot of time to wade through the 'myraid of information ' doesn't it? Personally I'm working 50+ hours a week just to keep my head above water. This was a snap election, the manifestos, or rather lies they spout, have only been available a short time and mean nothing anyway since they all go back on their word. I've spent a bit of time trying to find out about my candidates but some of them are unknowns whom I can't find any information on. I've had a brief look at the voting histories etc of the existing candidates but they are extensive and I am short on time, I am still undecided.

I've read the manifestos, gone to the Hustings, emailed all the candidates. Two of the PPCs know me and I know all the local councillors. I have followed the election very closely. I am very politically aware, engaged and an activist on several issues (feminism, environment, children).

I won't be voting. There are existential reasons why I won't vote for the two main candidates.

But essentially the outcome is same for me as it is for your colleague so YABU. If she doesn't feel informed enough to vote, fair play to her.

Voting once every 5 years is only one way to participate in democracy. There are lots of other ways including lobbying, activism, joining pressure groups, engaging in local projects and raising awareness.