To think this is an immature approach to voting?

I'd rather that approach than that of my sister who said she was going to vote Conservative, because they have given us female prime ministers.
She said it was the Tories that were evil bustards.
I took great glee in informing her that they were one and the same.

I think it's bizarre we are spoon fed about ox-bow lakes and SOHCAHTOA in school but not politics

The UK pretty much has (had?) a 2 party system; so for most people they vote and get either the party and policies they wanted or they get the other party.
If you get the party you voted for and don’t like it can you complain? I think we all apply this logic to self inflicted misery eg hangovers.
Now what if you vote and the others win, the whole point of the vote or you can’t complain is that your vote is you joining in the process several posters have said this, which is democracy and that means accepting the choice of the masses, so you still can’t complain.

On the other hand someone who doesn’t vote can say “I told you so” and maintain intellectual consistency.

And any way lobbying the government backing think tanks etc is more effective than voting and probably a lot of entities involved in those activities don’t (can’t) vote either but it is part of the process too, isn’t it?

Not quite sure what gives you the right to say that to anyone, however polite you put it!

No that’s a crap excuse. There will be loads of resources online and comparison tables/quizzes that could help someone see who they best align with if they were genuinely confused. It’s just laziness, almost as bad as ‘I’m not voting because they’re all as bad as each other’ 🙄

Does the OPs colleague expect to be spoon feed the information? Send her a summary via WhatsApp? I have an acquaintance who expects others to inform her so she can choose who to vote. So strange.

"And the whole, "i can't vote for a party that has a single policy I disagree with".. How on earth are you able to maintain frienships or a marriage? DH and I broadly agree on the big things, but there are loads of small things we don't agree on. And that's just two people, making an effort every single day to be there for the other one and to keep our lives moving in tandem"

This is a very important point.

My mother has always voted. I've always voted. She's 79. I'm 53. We've managed to navigate through life with work colleagues, neighbours, friendships, relationships and marriages.

No one party will ever align completely with your view. I've taken the Political Compass test numerous times, I've taken part in various polls, I like to engage with life. I'm also Autistic, and as a group, we are largely believed to be that of 'black and white thinking' I have voted in every election since i was 18. Local and General. I haven't voted the same way every time.

The far right will say that the far left live in an echo chamber and vice versa. Those same people will accuse each other of not voting with their communities best interests at heart.

I'm in a new constituency. I've had to read up on all 8 candidates. There is one independent candidate who had exactly the same manifesto as Reform. The Reform candidate hasn't even bothered to put a picture of themselves up.

Honestly, we all try to get through life as best we can. We look out for our loved ones, we look out for our friends and our community.

I don't judge anyone who does their best. I do wonder about people who can't be arsed to find out about details and don't care enough to make the effort.

Some of us appear to engage with life. Some don't. That's what I've learned from the various threads on Mumsnet in recent weeks.

It's been 8 years since the Brexit referendum was brought. Nearly a decade has flown by and somehow people are still salty about it. Some of that saltiness has led a number of remain voters to wish they'd voted to leave, which is understandable when you couldn't get through a day without hearing some airhead call leave voters racist and xenophobic, with nothing but Britain-bashing, 'Little England' slurs, and general Anglophobic bile for 8 sodding years. Or even "52/48! It should be run again! (repeat the referendum until people get tired and 'vote the way they should')"

Cameron wanted to put an old issue to bed, because he knew the public kept questioning why we were still a member state long after the EEC had morphed into a political behemoth, from being a trade union to help Britain's economy out of a painful post-war depression. So he gave the public a voice and wholeheartedly believed people would scoff at the idea of leaving the EU and would overwhelmingly vote remain. He gave the people a voice and respected democracy. But when he saw how people really felt, he stood down and ran off with his tail between his legs. He'd upset his puppet masters. And now he's a Lord. Puke.

2016 was the year the gears of the machine began to be exposed, in a manner of speaking. Trump, Brexit, Zika outbreak, Syrian war, Russian hacking, water crisis in Michigan, USA. The list goes on. But Brexit and Trump were the two main highlights. There was a huge paradigm shift and everything has been weird since.

Also, funny you should mention crocs. I bought a pair of crocs recently and wore them for a while. Sad to report they are, for me, one of the most uncomfortable shoes I've ever worn. So I'm banning myself from buying them.

Of course it is. I can totally say we should have had a referendum and still be democratic.
I don't want a referendum on lots of things. I don't want one on whether or not crocs should be banned, of if we should all be forced to drive electric cars, or if we should stop dumping sewage in the sea, or if private schools are good or bad, or if election campaigners shpuld go to prison for saying racist shit on people's doorsteps. It doesn't mean I don't have opinions on these things, or don't think I should have a say or that I don't think I should be able to choose a candidate that aligns with my views on these things.

The only way to get the government you want is to vote. We don’t live in a participatory democracy, we live in a representative democracy. Your vote counts - the rest is just tinkering round the edges.

Is that all? We've had dozens of the things coming through our door for weeks, and even had the current incumbent knock on our door for a chat. V nice chap.

Christ almighty. If we look back at recentish history in the UK there is plenty of evidence that people denied the vote fought very hard for that right. If we look internationally we can see people fighting hard for the right to vote.

Thanks to our forefathers and foremothers we have a hard fought for right.

So it's now an ideological battle which blurs the battle lines so that poor people actually think the tories are on their side until the election is over.

Sometimes I think we would be better with a dictatorship rather than lies and gaslighting that surround so called democracy. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer whatever. But there is no resistance movement where there is a so-called democracy and the population are so manipulated that they see no reason to vote - ironically because it is their democratic right to be fucked over.

Or maybe it highlights how worthless the right to put a cross on a ballot paper really is.

Either we leave the increasingly rich and powerful in charge and hope they will remember the poor and needy and won't use them to fund tax cuts or we change how we run and organise society.

I'm kind of on the fence with this.

I do think it's a duty to vote and that we all have a duty to educate ourselves about politics.

On the other hand, if someone can't be arsed to educate themselves, I would prefer that they acknowledge this and not bother. We have far too many clueless, ignorant voters who don't really understand what they're voting for already.

Well you either believe in democracy, or you don't. I believe there is an illusion of democracy, but in reality democracy doesn't exist. I know votes do nothing, but I vote anyway because it's a democratic right I choose to exercise. If you'd rather people not have a say in anything and somehow make them completely trust and not question a bloated, faceless entity like the government, that's (not) fine.

I've told people I'm not voting before or given a non committal response (but always have done), especially ones who are clearly uncomfortable by me not sharing my own political beliefs as it's fun to watch them froth. It's a secret ballot for a reason and I've found people like to make the assumption that you must be a closet racist or a simpleton, if you're not shouting about who you're going to vote for.

Of course I don't expect any party to deliver a manifesto in it's entirety. I find it amazing so many people voraciously believe a Politician they've never met is going to, sometimes to the extent they don't want to be seen to even casually associate with someone who has different political beliefs to themselves!

It's not democratic to have one thing decided in one way and everything else decided by a different process either.

That is true. However, he is already fairly right leaning so I am hoping he gets less so and mellows a bit as he gets older. In fairness, he engages in a far more measured manner than a very left-wing friend of ours who came to stay - it was v interesting to watch. We had an email later to say how concerned he was about Ds’ “far right” leanings…

DS feels you need to be in the world of work to fully understand things before you should be voting - his words not mine.

I've heard this a lot, mostly under 25's but even a 45 year old today, I told her that even spoiling her ballot was being counted. We need compulsory voting

Because you disagree with the candidate chosen? Because you broadly agree with the party's aims but want to work to influence certain policies before voting for them? Because you live in a one-party constituency that won't change and want to shape their approach and campaigns at local level even though you won't vote for them?

I mean have you ever MET any Labour party branch members - they all hate each other!

The ballot is secret for a reason!

why join a political party if you aren't goping to vote for it.....actually the last time I checked, promising to vote for the party you joined was a requirement!

the point of reading the actual manifestos (and they aren't rocket science) is that you get the direct information not filtered through pundits, presenters, the nedia generally, experts, or the gobs of the politicians themselves. i agree that they can't achieve everything in the manifesto by the wave of a wand but there should be some indication of timescale and expectation, also a division between aspirations, general principles, and measurable objectives. It can also be interesting to note what is not mentioned.... Nothing that takes genius although it does take the willing use of one's time......only the same stuff to the same level that anyone would do when making an expensive purchase....say a house or a new car.

Agree with this.

I'm currently Treasuer of our PTA. Can I get parents to engage? Can I fuck. They don't reply to a single email or group chat post. I sometimes get a 'like' but never a reply. No offers of help, raffle prizes, nowt. There's just three of us running round like blue arsed flies doing everything and sometimes funding prizes ourselves.

I'd actually rather someone argued with me on some points, than just not engage at all.

I agree she should, but I've had about 3 flyers through my door and 2 were from the same candidate!

Very lacklustre performance this time. They knew it was coming soon so I don't get it

its absolutely not about expressing your views and telling other people. It absolutely is about using your own head and heart and ethical standards to make a decision about who to vote for and to act on it. And if you haven't acted on it and done your part in expressing your choice through using your vote then I don't think that you (one) has any right to complain if things don't go the way you want.

It enrages me.

When you look at what it has cost for women to be able to vote on par with men then they bloody well SHOULD educate themselves and get to the polls.

I think it's a disgraceful attitude