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AIBU?

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Settlement figure for maternity discrimination?

83 replies

GoldieLocks09 · 03/07/2024 20:36

I’m due to take part in a ‘without prejudice’ meeting with my employer in the coming days. Ultimately my position at the company is no longer there and they have not followed recent maternity laws as they:

  1. have offered me a job that is not suitable at all (lower level, much less senior)
  2. told me I can apply for a more senior position (but backhandedly told me I wouldn’t get it)
  3. made the decision 9 months ago when I first went off and have only just told me
and there’s a few other things but I don’t want to be too outing..

I think both myself and the company know the outcome and that there will be a settlement. My question is how much should I push for?

I earn approx £120k OTE (bonus & basic salary), have already lined up childcare and paid a 6 month deposit, missed out on my annual bonus last year because they didn’t pay me it as I was on maternity leave, been there 6.5yrs and have a 3 month notice period. AIBU to go for a full years salary plus bonus and my notice period?

Can anyone share examples of what they’ve received as a settlement (or a friend of a friend, etc?) or how I’d go about calculating it. I’m aware I could get more taking them to a tribunal but for ease & the ability to get passed this awful period I’d rather just settle but for as much as I can?

OP posts:
CuriousGeorge80 · 04/07/2024 02:19

Agree you need a solicitor.
If I were you I would start with the following calculation and demands:

  1. Last year’s bonus paid in full (this is a no brainier they can’t not pay it just because you are on mat leave!)
  2. Full notice period paid in full (so 3 months) plus pension contribution for that period
  3. This year’s bonus paid pro rata for the % of your bonus year already passed plus notice period (so over 75% of this year’s bonus if you run Jan-Dec)
  4. Any sort of LTIP, stock etc paid in full for last year and as per point 3 above above for this year
  5. If you have other benefits like car allowance or health insurance, this to also be covered for notice period plus whatever extra period you ask for
  6. legal fees covered to a capped amount (£600-1000 in my recent experience)

To me, all of these are no brainers that they can’t argue against (well they can, but any decent lawyer would argue them down).

Question then is what else. I would ask for 9 months and accept 6, but it’s a bit finger in air time. This is why you need a good lawyer.

Also consider:

  1. agreed form reference
  2. agreed form company comms
  3. do you want to keep a work mobile or phone number?

good luck OP

Elphamouche · 04/07/2024 01:49

If this is a without prejudice settlement, you have to have a solicitor. The documents have to go through solicitors (recent experience of this!).

Get yourself a good one, we doubled what they were offering because they knew they’d lose massively at tribunal. Our solicitor was amazing. 1 90min zoom call and 3 emails. She found enough fuck ups in everything they’d written within that time and it was done and dusted.

You need to instruct a solicitor, and then time limits can start to come in - our solicitor told them to get fucked on the time limit they tried to impose and deliberately delayed for more money.

If its redundancy then its a different kettle of fish.

Good luck OP.

ETA - they also have to cover some of your solicitor fees, they came back with a number, our solicitor told them where to go, told them they minimum she was going to charge and they upped their offer and paid for everything bar £50.

youve987456 · 04/07/2024 00:43

I have no idea I'm afraid but when you get your next job please join a union. It's less than 20 quid a month and when I had issues they paid for a solicitor and barrister for me.

Bobsanidiot · 04/07/2024 00:30

I think it's worth looking at what a tribunal can award and compare to any offer they make.
https://workingfamilies.org.uk/articles/calculating-damages-and-compensation/

baisemavie · 04/07/2024 00:27

OP.

Going back a few years now and I was working for a local authority (being deliberately vague here) I settled out of court on a maternity discrimination and constructive dismissal claim. I got 2+ years pay (again being vague) and wasn't required to pay back enhanced maternity pay or childcare vouchers.

My advice would be and IANAL
Get yourself decent representation. This isnt something you can fight yourself.

Evidence absolutely anything and everything. In my case I had absolute rock solid concrete evidence of what was going on which is part of the reason I was able to get what I did.

Never agree to anything on the day. If they make you an offer, ask to take it away with you/think on it

Don't forget that you can also include injury to feelings. Again, if you have any evidence of this then find it or use it.

Will you return to work in the same sector? I never returned to work in that particular department, again something reflected in the award.

Get a reference 'on file' included as part of the award.

Last of all, look after yourself. It can be a brutal process to go through.

FunZebra · 04/07/2024 00:19

MsCactus · 03/07/2024 22:05

15 months pay is not overreaching. If they take you to tribunal it's is an uncapped amount and they have to pay for your "financial losses"

What this essentially means is if you take five years to find an equivalently paid job, they'd need to pay you five years salary, plus an award of injury to feelings between 5-50k on top I believe.

There was a woman recently who got made redundant on mat leave, couldn't find an equivalent job seven years later, and I believe she got around £3million in compensation - as they projected that she'd never find another equivalent role. Maternity discrimination is uncapped.

The flipside of this though is that if you get a BETTER paid job straight afterwards, you'd incur no financial loss so you'd be entitled to very little form the tribunal. Taking you to tribunal is a HUGE financial risk to your employer.

To your original Q - I was in a similar scenario (sadly). I negotiated 115% of a year's salary (so 15% over).

However, I kept pushing that it was illegal/threatening tribunal and in the end they called off the redundancy as they could tell I was serious. However at that point I didn't want to stay, so took the payout, then found a better paying job.

It knocks your confidence, but you'll definitely recover from this OP. Good luck - and seek legal advice!

If they take you to tribunal

employers don’t take employees to tribunal……..

the rest of your advice is also 💩

IdealisticCynic · 04/07/2024 00:15

I’m sorry you’re going through this. It must be very stressful.

But you are doing yourself and your family a disservice by not instructing a solicitor. Yes it takes a little time, and costs some money, but the difference in payout could be tens of thousands of pounds. Surely that’s worth pushing back on the settlement meeting date and getting proper legal advice for?

KickAssAngel · 04/07/2024 00:11

I'm absolutely not a lawyer, but I am involved in equity and discrimination a tiny amount for my work. So, I could be wrong!

I thought you still got your bonus as usual when on maternity leave, so ask about that as a separate issue

I also thought that there is no upper limit to the amount you could receive for a discrimination case. That would only be relevant if you end up in court, but might be worth keeping in mind when you see what they offer. You could argue that your chances of finding another job are minimal so they need to provide you with an income until retirement age. Obviously, that only works if true.

It also sounds like they're not sticking to the correct process by rushing this.

Personally, i'd go to the meeting and refer to it as a preliminary discussion. I'd also make notes and even record it if possible. I'd refuse to agree or decide anything, insist on written confirmation of what they say and offer, then tell them you'll be taking this to legal counsel.

Good luck, it sounds horrible for you.

GoldieLocks09 · 04/07/2024 00:03

They’re saying it’s not available because the business has decided my role isn’t needed, but surprisingly my cover seems to be doing a pretty similar role / leading my team / taking my place in the board meetings… but it’s definitely ‘not my role’….apparently

OP posts:
thinkfast · 03/07/2024 23:39

Also if you need time to prepare for the meeting, tell them you can't make the date they suggested and push it back by a week or so to get yourself some time to buy legal advice.

thinkfast · 03/07/2024 23:37

So your position at the company IS still there OP. They can't replace you with your maternity cover. If they want to do that, they really have to pay out or face the consequences. Also do not be pushed into agreeing something your not happy with during the without prejudice meeting. If they apply unfair pressure on you that in itself could be discrimination and withdraw the "without prejudice" status of the meeting.

GoldieLocks09 · 03/07/2024 23:27

SuePreemly · 03/07/2024 23:23

Check your home insurance and if you've paid for legal cover it often includes this sort of thing. My mum used hers to take her employer to tribunal for unfair dismissal and won.

REALLY really annoyingly, we don't have home insurance right now - we had to move out of our house just over 6 weeks ago as our buyers were getting really annoyed and threatening to pull out after a more delays (there'd been a few) on the property we're buying. We agreed to move out and stay with family until our new house was ready, so for the first time in years I don't have it. Sod's law!

OP posts:
SuePreemly · 03/07/2024 23:23

Check your home insurance and if you've paid for legal cover it often includes this sort of thing. My mum used hers to take her employer to tribunal for unfair dismissal and won.

GoldieLocks09 · 03/07/2024 23:16

Hi all, thanks for your responses. Unfortunately it's all happened really quickly, I got told about this a week ago and suddenly it's moving very fast since I pushed back having spoken to ACAS initially, they have straight away pushed me towards this conversation (probably sped up by the fact I asked where I could find a copy of our grievance policy), so I haven't yet found a lawyer and don't think I'll be able to get one quick enough (especially with the childcare options I have this week!) to get them up to speed and to fight my corner for me so I think this one I'll have to go solo for and if I feel like I need support or they're not offering me the package I want I'll look to get a lawyer involved ASAP.

To answer a couple of the questions:
My maternity cover basically has been given my job - but it's been spruced up and I'm told it's not my job (it is)
They've not actually told me that it's a redundancy, just that my job's not available - so it is a redundancy - but they've been very loose about the whole thing
The company is a large PLC who has a great share price at the moment, they wouldn't want bad publicity because of this. I do have shares in the company.
I need to check what our redundancy package is, I'm not aware currently so will make sure I do that ahead of the meeeting.
I have tried to get through to Pregnant Then Screwed at least 3 times and always end up on hold for an hour and then it hangs up on me... I've given up with them now unfortunately.

OP posts:
productiony · 03/07/2024 22:42

Been in this situation 3 times

I got £38k once - 6m pay
I got £30k plus 3m pay off other two times

Tbh if job market isnr great id go back
Hard to get hired at senior levels, you were off a long time
You will be back same level in 18/24m if you work hard/ impact
Anywhere else u go os statting again from scratch and huge effort

Duh · 03/07/2024 22:32

MsCactus · 03/07/2024 22:05

15 months pay is not overreaching. If they take you to tribunal it's is an uncapped amount and they have to pay for your "financial losses"

What this essentially means is if you take five years to find an equivalently paid job, they'd need to pay you five years salary, plus an award of injury to feelings between 5-50k on top I believe.

There was a woman recently who got made redundant on mat leave, couldn't find an equivalent job seven years later, and I believe she got around £3million in compensation - as they projected that she'd never find another equivalent role. Maternity discrimination is uncapped.

The flipside of this though is that if you get a BETTER paid job straight afterwards, you'd incur no financial loss so you'd be entitled to very little form the tribunal. Taking you to tribunal is a HUGE financial risk to your employer.

To your original Q - I was in a similar scenario (sadly). I negotiated 115% of a year's salary (so 15% over).

However, I kept pushing that it was illegal/threatening tribunal and in the end they called off the redundancy as they could tell I was serious. However at that point I didn't want to stay, so took the payout, then found a better paying job.

It knocks your confidence, but you'll definitely recover from this OP. Good luck - and seek legal advice!

Jesus OP is not going to take 5 years to find a job and any tribunal would laugh their head off if she claimed this. She is a successful high earner.

What Case are you talking about where a woman is in the Employment Tribunal 7 years (!) later.

It’s great you got an amazing pay out but it’s unusual and likely based on company culture and the particular facts. Hence why OP should get legal advice, each case is unique.

MsCactus · 03/07/2024 22:05

15 months pay is not overreaching. If they take you to tribunal it's is an uncapped amount and they have to pay for your "financial losses"

What this essentially means is if you take five years to find an equivalently paid job, they'd need to pay you five years salary, plus an award of injury to feelings between 5-50k on top I believe.

There was a woman recently who got made redundant on mat leave, couldn't find an equivalent job seven years later, and I believe she got around £3million in compensation - as they projected that she'd never find another equivalent role. Maternity discrimination is uncapped.

The flipside of this though is that if you get a BETTER paid job straight afterwards, you'd incur no financial loss so you'd be entitled to very little form the tribunal. Taking you to tribunal is a HUGE financial risk to your employer.

To your original Q - I was in a similar scenario (sadly). I negotiated 115% of a year's salary (so 15% over).

However, I kept pushing that it was illegal/threatening tribunal and in the end they called off the redundancy as they could tell I was serious. However at that point I didn't want to stay, so took the payout, then found a better paying job.

It knocks your confidence, but you'll definitely recover from this OP. Good luck - and seek legal advice!

Abitboring · 03/07/2024 22:01

Coppercup · 03/07/2024 21:58

If they offer you a pay off they'll usually cover the fee to run it by a lawyer too

OP, do this. A lawyer will make sure you get the absolute maximum pay off. My friend got her fees paid for a lawyer by her company and the lawyer negotiated a higher amount of money.

Coppercup · 03/07/2024 21:58

If they offer you a pay off they'll usually cover the fee to run it by a lawyer too

R41nb0wR0se · 03/07/2024 21:46

Get some advice from an employment solicitor. Push back the meeting if you have to. If you're in a union, contact them first - they might refer you on to their solicitors. Also check if you have legal cover on any insurance policies or with any professional bodies you belong to. If you can't get free legal advice from any of the above, contact an employment lawyer - a lot of the unions use Thompson's.
No one on here can really advice you - we don't know your terms and conditions and we don't know the financial resources of your organisation or how damaging an employment tribunal would be to their reputation. These are all key factors in how much they will be willing to pay.

Coppercup · 03/07/2024 21:46

I would speak to an employment lawyer now.

If you can't do this in time, I would attend the meeting, listen to what they say and not say anything in return. Ensure the meeting is minuted and make your own notes.

If they ask you to make any decisions, dont. Say you'll think about it.

And then speak to an employment lawyer.

You need proper advice and a lawyer will need more info than you've given here.

Sapphire387 · 03/07/2024 21:41

OP, please be very mindful of the time limits to make an employment tribunal claim. It's your leverage to make sure you get your settlement.

Three months minus a day from the act of discrimination.

EatTheGnome · 03/07/2024 21:38

Lawyer.

And don't forget to cost to compensate for your stress and their reputation. If you settle I would imagine they will want to keep their name out of the public domain. Dontninderestimate the value of that to a renowned company.

Yesmate · 03/07/2024 21:35

Get an employment lawyer. You need proper legal advice. They will try and screw you otherwise.

TestingTestingWonTooFree · 03/07/2024 21:34

Try talking to Pregnant then Screwed.