To be at my wit's end with DS's table manners.

How old is he? Age 6 and above definitely should start making dinner table rules. Its a constant battle but they are capable. I have two neurodiverse kids and they are capable and can do it. We have strict dinner table rules or they get sharply reminded about expectations and if they dont adhere then they get a punishment such as no gaming.

I am being judgemental. The child’s mother is being judgemental. Society will be judgemental. Bad table manners are a social and professional handicap. It needs to be nipped in the bud.

No nerves touched. definitely not hysterical.
I just think you’re a judgmental prick and the one who should really look in the mirror.

Dyspraxia is not wiping your hands on your clothes. If you can close your mouth, you can close your mouth when you’re eating.

Calm down. You sound hysterical. If I touched a nerve, eat in front of a mirror.

So every form of dyspraxia is the same?!
Everybody is affected in the same way?!
I’m dyspraxic and manage a fork and spoon combo with ease. You must be lazy and disrespectful!

Dyslexic here. I eat properly although I’ve never mastered the fork & spoon combo for curry’s and spaghetti.

These manners are just lazy and disrespectful to those around him. Dyspraxia is no excuse for eating with your mouth open and wiping greasy hands all over the place.

No treatment as such. But he may benefit from occupational therapy, various aids and equipment, extra time in exams, could be anything dependent on the individual issues.
Aside from that, tolerance and understanding would be the starting point.
Him knowing it wasn’t his fault and understanding his difficulties.
Not allowing the internet to offer up punishments such as removing his food, making him stand, making himself watch in a mirror.
Not being called disgusting, vile, rude or ‘giving the ick’.
Take your pick!

As for some of the responses on here, they are seriously worrying and I hope to God half of these people are not parents or in any way responsible for showing children kindness and boosting self-esteem!

Agree. Some of the responses have actually really upset me — that some parents would treat their children like this.

Just because your children end up with good table manners doesn’t mean you’ve ‘succeeded’. If they’re scarred for life by the bullying you haven’t won anything.

What would be the treatment for that?

It sounds like he may have developmental coordination disorder (essentially, dyspraxia). Do not underestimate the difficulties this can cause.
As for some of the responses on here, they are seriously worrying and I hope to God half of these people are not parents or in any way responsible for showing children kindness and boosting self-esteem!
Maybe get your son assessed OP.

Oh man, OP, I'm sorry you're having to deal with it. Do finishing schools exist any more?

I love your honesty and not trying to blame it on some kind of neuro diversity/sensory issue as lots of parents do. My son is now 19 and was exactly the same. Talking with his mouth full tok which was a real bugbear of mine. No issues just lazy and ate too fast. It does tend to sort itself out with time and maturity and self awareness

I struggled with this as a child, dysparaxia and other issues, ignore the terrible abusive advise to sit them on the floor until they can behave human etc.
work on hand to eye coordination outside of the dinner table, cut sandwiches up smaller perhaps.

It’s polite to say please when you ask someone to do something, even if it’s ultimately not optional. If you’re trying to bring your children up to be functioning members of society then you should be modelling good manners to them.

Why are you so sure there isn't a medical issue? I mean it there really isn't then you need to up the response. Make him eat on his own for a few meals maybe, with no TV or anything. However I think there may be a medical issue. It seems odd that he definately doesn't want to eat nicely unless there is a medical reason why he can't or a reason why he wants to be defiant (which you haven't mentioned). I have a brain injury which caused neurological issues, and coordinating a knife and fork is hard. Chewing with my mouth closed is also hard. I can do it, but I cannot do anything else meanwhile (like take in a conversation) and a whole meal of doing so would take hours and be exhausting.

This won’t really work with an 11-year-old to be honest. They’re not really going to care.

To me he sounds like he has dyspraxia. I would contact g.p and try get him seen by OT so they can help him properly. My son has dyspraxia, it makes him very clumsy, hard to write correctly because of grip needed and struggled to cut things with a knife and fork. It isnt laziness and nothing could help until we figured out what was wrong. Gripping things to use them correctly with co ordination takes alot of time, alot of stress for all involved. Definitely see if occupational therapy can help

OP tell him this story, which I've posted on MN before.

DP and I went for a quick lunch in Sainsburys cafe. The two men (mid 20s) at the next table had already got their food and were eating. When they finished they started chatting (loudly) and one of them was complaining that even if he took a girl out for dinner they never wanted a second date. I sooo wanted to lean over and say I've seen the way you eat, I can tell you why you don't get a second date.

Mine was like this. Now is 14 and mainly better ! Just have to keep reminding them.

tho we are a dyslexic family and I often spill food down me unless very careful

No child ever prospered by being humiliated like that. There are a million other ways to teach your children good manners without degrading them and treating them like animals.

Can’t you see that a boy of 11/12 who is otherwise well behaved is doing this for a reason?

Also, using screen time as a bargaining tool is pathetic. It’s totally unrelated to what you’re asking him to do.

Why do you say 'please' when you are giving your DS2 an order - not to talk with his mouth full? It makes you sound as if this is a negotiable point when it isn't. And if his elder brother has problems eating, then you need to explain and also say that though it seems unfair he has to conform to rules his brother does not, it is just as he can conform, whereas his brother cannot. Children tend to respond to the justice point.

Nothing is wrong with me - and my DCs grew up with good manners. I never sat them on the floor, except when we were all doing so, naturally, or took away food - nor did I insist everything was finished btw. I taught explicit table manners, two sorts: knife and fork and eating with only your right hand (a different cultural norm). You must explicitly teach your children table manners, they are not going to learn by osmosis e.g. by watching other people. If persuasion does not work when bad manners have set in then sanctions will. Taking away food because a child is making an utter mess on the plate, the floor and itself is not unreasonable - unless it's a toddler under 2. Sitting on the floor to eat if you cannot sit at the table properly is not unreasonable (and we did it for cultural reasons also, but that is irrelevant here) and nor are sanctions for what is misbehaviour. Limiting screen time looks like a good sanction: DC doesn't like it and also it keeps them off the screen for longer.
Your children are not your friends, and if you love them you will not treat them as if they are, but teach them how to function properly and prosperously in society.

Have you had the fair isn't equal, fair is when everyone gets what they need conversation? That would be a starting point. Your eldest needs certain concessions and adaptations, your other son doesn't because he can do it, he just chooses not to. You can even push it to make him do something (that would be annoying/awkward) that his brother HAS to do to drive the point home. He can't pick and choose .

Then I would pick one or two non negotiables (not the chewing with mouth open one) and try rewards/praise first. If that doesn't work, then you can look at fair /reasonable consequences. Have the conversations away from the table , and just give reminders while actually eating. Remember you're saving for your pikachu cards(or whatever).

Once those one or two things become ingrained/habit, I'd add more. With more conversations about fair isn't equal so it stops being an excuse.

My DS1 aged 12 is like this. He is very severely dyspraxic. Unfortunately my DS2 aged 10 now eats terribly too. He is not dyspraxic. I find it very difficult.

If I say to DS2 “please don’t speak with your mouth full. Please use cutlery etc” he will reply with “But DS1 doesn’t have to use cutlery properly etc.” If I come down hard on DS2, it causes embarrassment for DS1.

Does anyone have any advice on this? It’s becoming an increasing problem as DS2 and DD (aged 9) overtake DS1 developmentally.