Husband 'needs'

I have no internalized misogyny.

Sure, Miss ‘there’s no partriarchy’.

I see the world how it is. I have three children, a very disabled child, and am the survivor of six years of childhood sexual assault and grew up essentially in the third world

With all due respect, so what. I have three disabled children and a past of abuse. Literally irrelevant again.

You’ve turned this thread into your own personal agenda rather than recognising what issues the op is facing. You’ve made it oddly political. You still haven’t addressed the fact she has tried to speak to her husband and compromised on his needs and he’s not doing the same in return. You’re just desperate to see a woman meet a man’s needs just like you do. The op isn’t here to validate your life and beliefs.

The problem with your post is I don’t actually get on social media because lots of women like those in this thread have overtaken it with liberal BS ideas and best up on. Woman expressing any opinions counter to their own. That’s not being real feminist is it? Who is actually showing misogynistic views now? It isn’t me. I don’t agree with the general consensus or group think about how women should be so that now makes me the bad woman. Don’t you see the irony in this?. We don’t live in medieval times. The patriarchy isn’t real. It’s just some general thing we like to blame all of the ills of society on, but actually doesn’t really exist anymore. It’s now women beating up on other women for not agreeing with every single one of their viewpoints. Tell our women any happier now than they’ve ever been? I don’t believe so.

Maybe women needed progressive feminism years ago when we weren’t allowed to work outside the homes and when we were considered property of our Husband. But I actually see marriage is something far more nuanced than a man only being there to provide for our own needs

like it or not I don’t really care

And given that I have a son, I will absolutely raise him to believe his rights matter just as much as mine and my two daughters.

Stonewalling IS abusive. It's one of the four aspects of behaviour that John Gottman (one of the foremost relationship experts) calls the most lethal to relationships and predictive of divorce.

It is not up to her to fix him. This is one of the biggest things we need to change in how women are taught to behave and you're just falling for it. She doesn't have to nip his stonewalling in the bud, HE does.

She is trying to explain what she needs from him that are basic requirements of ANY relationshiip: listening to the other person, not being critical, spending time together. Sex is not a requirement in that way; it comes naturally as part of a loving and caring relationship with your partner. Someone who is stonewalling and not helping at all with the household or childcare is not being loving and caring.

Op

sorry to derail your post

I merely wanted to offer another opinion. I knew you would get lots of opinions telling you he was abusive and controlling and his needs were not valid. However, having been through something similar myself, I’m offering you another viewpoint. Whether you agree or anyone else agrees or not you wouldn’t post on a public message for him if you weren’t asking for all of you. Which is why I asked you what you wanted in the first place. I didn’t come here to get beat up and called, all sorts of names. I came here to help.

Sorry I don’t believe in the “ patriarchy “

Honey, you couldn’t have made that more obvious even if you put it on a tshirt. You seem very much the type of woman who will fight for men’s needs and feelings to be recognised, lots of ‘we’ve forgotten what it means for men to be men’ memes floating about your social media…

I have no internalized misogyny. I see the world how it is. I have three children, a very disabled child, and am the survivor of six years of childhood sexual assault and grew up essentially in the third world

i hve very little time to sit and argue much less make well articulated (I sense a layer of education class being thrown at me here) with a bunch of unhappyily married women on mumsnet who want me to buy into second wave feminist bs (which guess what I actually used to buy into. I am a reformed liberal.)

I don’t care whether you agree with what I have to say or not. But your opinion and thoughts about me have no bearing on my life. I’m happy to see they’ve only reinforced yours about your own.

Sorry I don’t believe in the “ patriarchy “

I think women and men have different biological wiring and therefore different needs

i don’t care if you agree or anyone else does

We would both be at fault and we would both need to come to the table like adults and come clean about what’s working and isn’t and make a plan so we can both be happy.

It’s been pointed out several times now that the op has shared her part in what’s not working with her husband. Her husband isn’t taking it on board. She’s even ‘giving in’ to his ‘needs’ (which again, are not needs, they’re wants) to placate him - he’s still not changing his behaviour to meet her needs.

and as it happens my husband has absolutely been sex “needy”in the past and his needs are far greater than mine however I see him filling my needs bucket and I’m happy to fill his. But that hasn’t come easy for either of us.

See above again for why this isn’t working for the op.

It takes compromise and I’m not some submissive little wife- I’m actually the terrier of the relationship.

You have a frightening amount of internalised misogyny and have been gaslit to hell about what is a healthy, equal and loving relationship. But I’d also bet you scoff at the term ‘gaslighting’ in general don’t you? Especially in how very determined you are in finding blame in the op here.

I won’t mince words with other women about it either so say whatever you may to me about my views but I won’t bend on them.

Yes, it’s quite evident you’re a ‘I say it how I want’ type person, even if you don’t have the capacity to fully weigh the information presented to you and come to a better articulated conclusion.

Nasty because I don’t agree with the toxic bs being rained on this woman’s post? fine with me.

Someone else referred to women who did t agree with him as nasty and I can guarantee you don’t want to be lumped in with his lot :)

Finally someone with some sense

Oh god I wish I'd known this when I was younger.

OP I fell for all the guilting, sulking behaviour when I was first married. I'm afraid it doesn't change. Even if you met his 'needs' then he'd raise the bar higher.

This man doesn't love and respect you. That's nothing to do with YOU not being enough, it's about him. But you can't help him or change him.

The only thing you can do is get out before you waste any more time. Don't fall for the sunk costs fallacy. Think about not wasting any future time. I've got friends in their 70s who are STILL trying to live up to their husbands unrealistic expectations.

Sorry but I fail to see what is abusive? He might be genuinely hurt by the situation. I’m not in their marriage and I can’t claim to know the ins and outs of what is happening here. I grew that is coersive but I also know many people who ignore their partners and see it as a non issue. I don’t agree but if that’s their pattern then that is something they need to fix

his stonewalling is a serious issue. I take that on board. But couldn’t he see her lack of sexual appetite for him as the same? And she needs to nip his stonewalling in the bud unless that is a typical pattern in their relationship… does she return fire

Maybe I’ve missed something but the amount of man abuse in this thread is ridiculous. and the amount of shouting for divorce every time something comes up with men and their need for sex and calling it abusive is ridiculous.

That’s the problem tho isn’t it.

He wants/needs sex to feel connected loved whatever

she wants/needs time/affection in general to feel the same to want the sex

They both want things from the other, but the other will not give the other their want/need till their own is met.

communication is the overall problem. It’s a Mexican standoff.

Now he might be a huge arsehole cunting wank badger or he might just be an emotionally stunted man who can’t verbalise so strops. Not good either way. Again communication.

But surely at one point this relationship was working, op got her time and affection and he got his sex which by ops own comments is good sex. So what happened. What made him or her pull away first, what made it so that he sees this as now a trade off when it’s obviously wasn’t before.

We can all jump to LTB abuse abuse or we can actually look a little deeper sometimes and try to find the cause to see if it’s fixable 🤷🏻‍♀️

If my husband stonewalled me it would be a clear indication there is something very serious happening in our marriage because stonewalling is dangerous grounds in a relationship. it can lead to divorce.

we would have a “come to Jesus” talk about our marriage and needs. There wouldn’t be finger pointing and assigning blame. We would both be at fault and we would both need to come to the table like adults and come clean about what’s working and isn’t and make a plan so we can both be happy.

and as it happens my husband has absolutely been sex “needy”in the past and his needs are far greater than mine however I see him filling my needs bucket and I’m happy to fill his. But that hasn’t come easy for either of us. It’s been hard won. It takes compromise and I’m not some submissive little wife- I’m actually the terrier of the relationship. But I’ve been married to someone who had no sexual desire for me, who ignored me, and had no respect for me. I decided to step away. I’ve also been down the road of believing men aren’t different than women in regards to need, and I no longer buy it. I’m very happily married now and my husband and I have to negotiate that regularly.

I won’t mince words with other women about it either so say whatever you may to me about my views but I won’t bend on them.

They seem to be a very nasty person don't they?

He's treating her like a hole.

She SAID that she didn't turn him down all the time, she asked him to STOP GOING ON ABOUT IT.

Jesus fucking Christ. OP, ignore people like this. You have EVERY right to simply want to have your husband want to spend time with you as a person and not just a HOLE.

I'd rather not completely out myself or he'd be really angry.

My heart breaks reading this. If I could reach you from this anonymous place, I'd give you a bear hug. The abuse you've been subjected to seem more awful than your original post.

OP, none of us in Mumsnet can stop your husband from abusing you. None of us can fathom how that abuse has affected you as a woman, deserving respect and love in a mature relationship with the man you share your life with.

If there is one thing you need to take from the majority of posts is this - you are being abused by your husband. Let it sink in. Keep thinking about it. It'll be a beginning for you.

Repulsive

At these stage op you're not even friends. He will never be able to get past this. Wouldn't it be just so much easier, more happy and content for you to get to just live without having him around? Yes it's not easy when you have kids, but this isn't working.

Imagine, after putting your little ones to bed, getting to sit in the peace and quiet knowing how loved you are by those innocent little souls? THEY love you for YOU. HE doesn't. Right now you're drowning, and it's HIM that's pulling you down under the water.

This is sexual coercion. If you don't have sex with me I'll stonewall you. He is trying to bully you into sex. That's repulsive.

Where is the romance? Where is the effort? Most women don't get turned on by fuck me or I'll sulk for days and act like a tennager. Kevin and Perry "it's so UNFAIR".

I bet you do all the housework, parenting and life admin as well.

I do agree with this, I’m a woman and sex/intimacy is an important part of my marriage so we prioritise it because we know we both start to feel a bit disconnected without it! I think it comes down to really what people feel is important in their own relationships and what they need to feel connected, it’s difficult when both people don’t agree on what those important things are

There is no correlation between not enabling domestic violence and not being fun in bed. I’m far from vanilla my little sugar lump, but we’re not talking about me right now.

I can’t engage with you anymore, you’ve got the iq of a Didgeridoo and it’s embarrassing trying to communicate with someone so thick. Your other replies are as shit as your first, I’m embarrassed for you. 1950 wants you back.

It's understandable when you feel rejected emotionally & physically you are less likely to want to be sexually intimate. There is also the old adage 'use it or lose it' The other very important consideration is an incompatible sex drive. It's often assumed it's men who are desperate for sex within the marriage with women reluctantly obliging. Although this is far from the truth, in many cases it will be true. Does this make for a fulfilled & happy relationship, absolutely not. The happiest & most contented people in marriage are couples who communicate with meaningful discussions addressing every aspect of their lives, including their sex lives. Its nothing to do with age either. Sex when both parties are fit & healthy can be a wonderful way to bond whether you are in your 20s or 80s. As far as menopause is concerned. It's a myth that all women dry up & lose their sex drive during this phase. Again although many do there are others who are the absolute opposite. All the best OP, I hope you both work it out.

i see nothing bout a sex pest. I see someone desperate to have sex with his wife and doesn’t know how to communicate it properly

Thats a him problem, the op has explained to him what the issue is and he’s not taking it on board. Demanding sex because he ‘needs it’ and completely shutting down when explained to him why she doesn’t want it with him is being a sex pest.

i only brought up trans stuff to illustrate a point that men and women are biologically wired very very different and we need to remember our needs and their needs look very different

I don’t think you know enough of the biological and sociological differences between men and women to be commenting on this. Because there’s a overlap when it comes to wanting sex (which is natural to both men and women even if it fluctuates) and the reasons why some men think they’re owed sex (patriarchy control). Regardless, it’s completely irrelevant to the thread.

my husband is the same and if I was ignoring his needs he would be very hurt

OPs husband is ignoring her needs and she is very hurt by it, can you not understand why she feels unwilling to also meet his needs? Women have wants and needs just in the same way as men, there has to be a certain amount of mutual respect in a couple to make a marriage work.

Would you expect your husband to resort to coercive, abusive behaviour if you (for whatever reason) weren't meeting his needs? Would you then decide to service him to meet his needs anyway, even though you didn't want to, how would that make you feel about him?

You can't apply the same 'standards' of a healthy communicative relationship to an abusive one, that is the mistake you are making here.