"School refusal" trend

@User235648 you are also talking a whole load of bollocks about the PTA and play dates. Many autistic children will be completely unable to cope with extra social interaction and activities once they’ve been at school for six hours. And those kind of things are often a nightmare for autistic kids. It’s not learning that’s the issue. The structured learning part is the least problematic aspect.

You also don’t know what you’re asking of autistic parents there, and a lot of autistic kids will have autistic parents. Those situations are just unpleasant for me as an autistic adult. So you’re asking me to spend my life doing those things when I’m already burnt out from the meltdowns that result from school attendance. You’re asking me to compromise my mental health as well as my child’s, while we all spend our lives masking? And you think that will make us happy and confident over time? I tried that for forty years (and actually did join the PTA, it didn’t transform my children’s school experience!). So no thanks.

You sound extremely ill-informed.

We understand neuroplasticity. No amount of brain development is going to make an autistic person not autistic (and nor should that be a goal).

We know about graded exposure. We also know that this shouldn’t be applied to sensory overload. Because learning to mask is a recipe for burnout. And because pushing through only makes things worse. We want to teach our children to manage their own sensory and social needs, to know when to stop, withdraw, etc and not put themselves in situations that aren’t good for them.

I only wish I’d learnt this before my forties, because it’s been life changing since.

My dc was also ‘fine once in school’. Masking is powerful.

Have you ever heard of "masking", or "fight, flight, freeze, fawn"?

Masking is where an autistic (or otherwise ND) child pretends to be NT to avoid bullying or harassment - it takes a lot of effort and can lead to burnout and other mental health issues but it means they look "fine".

Freeze and Fawn are alternative ways in which a stress response to a perceived existential threat can manifest - the children who are aggressive or run when traumatised are very visible but the others look quiet, shy, well-behaved, rule-following and obedient - they are absolutely terrified of getting something wrong because their bodies are telling them it might be deadly. Much as people tend to be terribly obedient and submissive to someone waving a gun. They look "fine" too - often like a model student!

In both cases they won't look so compliant and quiet once they are safely released from the situation and they won't be in a hurry to go back in!

I'm in my 50s and was a school refuser!

So much ignorance on this thread.

https://www.ipsea.org.uk/school-anxiety

Interestingly it's a phenomenon all over the world, even in countries with vastly different social norms and attitudes towards individualism, duty, discipline etc, eg China and Japan from what I understand.

Tend to agree. Years ago it wasn't really heard of.
You just knew you had to go to school and you went unless you had a temperature or something.

" I can't think of anything more detrimental than a ND child who gets taken out of school and spends all day on their phones consuming content created about human interaction, but never ever getting to experience it themselves."

If they are 'taken out of school' then they become home educated, and home educated children are generally very busy and see many people in a variety of different settings (unless they are still deep in an initial burnout caused by a trauma that led to the deregistration in the first place).

@User235648 you clearly don't seem to know anything about autism or ND kids.

Op I find it very hard to believe that you work in a job where you come into contact with many “ school refusers” the fact that you use that type of language makes me doubt it even more. I do in fact work for a service where children are referred to us by schools, CAMHS, GP’s and other professionals as well as concerned parents, we receive 20 - 30 referrals every week. Many of these children ( not all) get referred to us because the child is unable to attend school regularly or at all. We require full details of what has been happening, what has already been tried by the schools ( sometimes the schools really could do better) and any background information about the child and the family. There are detailed descriptions of children not being able to attend school following verbal or physical bullying and even sexual assault, other cases where the child has SEN and their needs are not being met often because the school lacks staffing or resources ( yes schools actually write this on the referral forms) Children being overwhelmed with school anxiety from age 5 up to age 17. Children who cannot leave their homes never mind attend school.
I can hand on heart say I have never seen a referral from a school or anyone else that says the child’s non attendance is due to lazy ineffective parenting and I’ve sadly seen plenty of referrals.

Thank you to all those that answered my questions.
It makes for some upsetting reading.it’s obviously getting to be a big problem particularly since Covid.
I wish you all well.

Don't think it's a coincidence that kids who thrive most at school tend to be the children of PTA mums or kids of teachers who have that inner circle where everyone knows each other.

I don't agree with a lot of what you say, but this takes the biscuit.

Try this when they get to secondary school and see where that gets you

I was on the PTA, have a big circle of local friends and our kids were always friends too. No amount of this changed what my teen DD has been through the last 4 years.

No, I don’t. I’ve seen no evidence of that at our current school.

I disagree it’s a massive generalisation. Maybe if the child doesn’t truly have EBSA and is pushing boundaries it may work. But for most, who find school utterly distressing, it won’t.

You only have to look at all the EBSA guidance to see that.

Incredibly tiny baby steps.

@InTrainingForChristmas

I remember getting bored too. But that was a couple of days here and there being off for tonsillitis or an ear infection.

Regular refusal (the term is EBSA rather than refusal) is completely different.

In most cases (and certainly in my DDs case) she wanted nothing more than to be in school with her friends. It's can't not won't. She spent the whole of year 9 under her duvet depressed, anxious and crying.

It's not a case of 'don't they get bored' ? It goes way beyond that. They can't do it and no amount of tech / no tech/ TV/ gaming will replace the wish that they could just be 'normal' and go to school every day.

The year in bed self harming was the worst but even after that when things got a bit better once she was on various medications, the most she managed was watching stuff on the laptop wishing she could leave the house but blocking out the anxiety she felt about falling so far behind ar school and not fitting in with her friendship group any more.

If she couldn't make it into school (v sporadic over the following 3 years) then she wasn't 'up' enough to engage with school work at home either. If she felt ok to do work then she'd make it into school.

Schools are reluctant to self work home in case it encourages them to stay off school.

Even now, many schools have very outdated and uninformed views on what the problem actually is, like quite a few posters on Mumsnet.

As many have have been through this have already said , unless you have first hand experience of this , a completely isolating, depressing and all consuming experience then it's not wise to judge.

I think you'll find the difference is Ofsted, which came in in the mid 90's. They weren't quite so serious to start with but now attendance is one of the criteria schools are judged against during an inspection. They even look at what work is being sent home for students who aren't attending school. This has put more pressure on the schools to get students to attend and in turn the schools put more pressure on the families. Not necessarily the best solution.

No amount of bribery or sternness will cure school related anxiety.

That's a very big generalisation. On the topic of resilience, most people feel relieved and slightly prouder of themselves if they pushed through a situation made them anxious. Children's minds are simpler and if they associate attending a day of school with a positive reward at the end of the day or week, then than alone is often enough to reframe the experience for them. It's basically CBT and exposure therapy. By conquering something they want to avoid (with added incentives like toys or whatever) then they feel slightly more capable of coping with the same situation again.

And this works with ND kids as well, albeit dependant on level of severity. People here are using autism and neurodiversity like be all and end all argument. If a child is proven ND then their brains can't possibly adapt to a neurotypical environment. I will get lots of hate for saying this but I daresay they do. Look up neuroplasticity and the theory of post traumatic growth. I believe that neurodivergent children with lower support needs can benefit from being in a school where they are treated the same as everyone else but also have the benefits of finding friendships with like-minded kids and experiencing all the "core memories" that are a vital part of childhood. Birthday parties, school events, school dances, being part of a sports team, contributing to school publications, having crushes, first dates etc.

One can argue those are vital parts of the human experience. Virtually all songs, TV shows, movies and literature are built around core elements of social interaction. A key complaint of ND people is that they feel left out in groups and always "different" or lonely or hated that they felt like others didn't like them. However they still innately crave connection, often more intensely than NT people. I can't think of anything more detrimental than a ND child who gets taken out of school and spends all day on their phones consuming content created about human interaction, but never ever getting to experience it themselves. It's condemning them to a life of being an observer and always being on the outside looking in.

Again, well aware that if school refusal has worsened to the point of hysteria and physical then this isn't possible. But a key role as a parent would be to build up the social structure of school so the child genuinely enjoys being there for things other than just learning. Play dates, contact with other parents, volunteering, parties, PTA whatnot. Don't think it's a coincidence that kids who thrive most at school tend to be the children of PTA mums or kids of teachers who have that inner circle where everyone knows each other.

I judged until it happened to me. Undiagnosed autistic daughter, who'd struggled post-lockdown to go back to school, one day point blank refused to get out of the car and had a huge panic attack. When you see genuine fear in your child's eyes, you don't put them through that.

And CAMHS? 18 months on I'm still waiting for something, anything from the NHS for her mental health or neurodiversity assessment. In that time, she's attempted suicide, self harmed and developed an eating disorder. I went private to get anti-anxiety meds. Her education right now is the least of my worries.

You're wrong to say it didn't happen in the 70s / 80s though. I remember a kid in my class in middle school would turn up every morning, get marked in the register and then walk out the school gates.

I have a DD who I battle with to get to school and who I battle with to keep at school. Every week I get messages asking to come home.

It's anxiety. Being home during Covid showed her that not going to school was a legitimate possibility.

I have managed to keep her attendance up at over 96% but every single % is a battle. I've been in tears over it.

There's a lot going on for my DD. CAMHS met us twice and think she's AuADHD (told me I probably was too 😱) and have asked the school to do the referral but nothing will happen now till the school holidays are over.

Parents and carers will be in absolute bits about this.

It's fucking difficult. It's the old walk a mile in our shoes scenario...

When my dd was trying to attend school, she was too unwell to be bored if she stayed home. She was burnt out and shut down to the point that she couldn’t even manage a ten minute walk. She basically shut down and stayed in her room.

Now she’s home educated, she does a variety of things. She goes to groups, works on projects at home, sees friends, goes out and about.

And yes, I had to significantly reduce my hours. Lots of parents have to.

my sister used to do school work at home. I loved learning. She read every book shr could find. She taught herself Japanese. She learned to play piano. She did all herGCSEs a year early and got A/A*
learning wasn’t the issue, school was.

When my dd first started I would ban all screens and she would have to stay in her room with just a book for entertainment. She loved reading so this was fine with her. She actually hasn't refused much and I do think that's because I've ensured it's not fun to stay home. However I can see she would choose to stay home no matter how shit I make it because school is so much worse for her. She's a bright kid who struggles with the social of school so I will be home educating her next year. This is only a possibility for us as I have an autistic child with no school place and the LA have decided he should have EOTAS which is education at home as there won't ever be a school place for him so as I can't work anymore I don't see why my dd should be traumatised.

But I do think most parents of school refusers allow screens and let them entertain themselves. Many don't really have a different option if you are trying to get your own work done or relying on family to have them while you work.

It is to do with the SEND system failing children and families so needs aren’t being met at school. In the past there were resources within school for classroom assistants but now budgets are so tight they are only available to those who have been assessed by the local authority and meets threshold.

Children rarely have diagnosed mental health needs due to extreme pressure on CAMHS. and waiting lists that are years long. Same with autism or ADHD diagnosis. For the same reason referrals are often “bounced back”.

I’ve seen children severely traumatised due to being physically manhandled to school due to threats of prosecution.

it happened in the 70s too, probably less so due to different parenting approaches and there being a greater understanding of trauma and mental health in children.

OP your post is ignorant and inflammatory.

My child says they’re bored all the time. I use my Twinkl account to print some bits and pieces off for her. Luckily I’m still taking a break from work and looking after DD1.

Both my daughters want to attend school, they miss their friends and do actually enjoy learning. It’s awful watching them feel pulled between home and school. I’ve dragged both in, it didn’t work. I’ve restricted all treats, didn’t work, I’ve bribed with everything I possibly could, didn’t work. I’ve been stern and told them we could end up in prison, didn’t work.

It is so much more complex than just making them go. School is a very one size fits all approach to education.

@InTrainingForChristmas
We home educate them, we provide them with learning opportunities that they cannot access at school