To refuse to send DS12 to detention

I have a friend like this is who always challenging her kids detention, as a former educator it actually has put me off
her as a friend. Her kids will blatantly lie and she will back them and be straight on the phone, but sometimes they even admit to being rude to teachers for no good reason and she will share it with me like it’s a funny joke? I don’t see her getting on the phone to discuss her children’s behaviour then. She also played down when her child slapped a TA in primary school.

That said re. This specific situation I don’t agree with class detention unless every single child deserved it and this teachers note seemed a bit unprofessional.

I totally agree. My children go to a rough school with some really terrible behaviour but they have NEVER had a class detention. In fact, they've never had a detention. The school are really good at making those kids who work hard and behave well feel special. That will get the most of out of them. To be honest, there aren't really supply teachers anymore, just cover teachers and they will be quick to get the 'on call' teacher if undesirable behaviour gets out of control.

OP, I think maybe you need to find out how behaviour is managed generally apart from this one-off incident. But it sounds like actively trying to move schools may be in your son's best interest because believe Y8-9 will only get worse.

If one or two people are behaving inappropriately and the whole group is punished for it, you can get this 'peer regulation' effect. It's the idea behind doing it in a situation like a military boot camp, where you're also trying to build group identity and cohesion. For obvious reasons, it isn't a good strategy to use with children.

Teachers use it when what seems like the majority of a class of children are behaving badly. In that case, the children who aren't participating in the behavior are likely to be some combination of generally well-behaved, introverted, timid, conscientious, etc. This small group of children will not be able to exert peer pressure on the rest of their class. The only message it's sending is that they might as well act up if everyone else is doing it, because they'll be punished regardless of their personal guilt or innocence.

Or it can fail hard, because the kids who want the miscreants to behave don't have enough power or influence to enforce it. And because the kids who might otherwise be inclined to behave see less reason to do so, if they're going to be punished the same anyway.

Group punishment can be highly effective in teaching children the importance of not going with the mob. It also can improve behaviour as peer-to-peer behaviour regulation is often more effective than adult to student at that age.

I think that was clear to everyone else. Also, you said the supply teacher 'sounded like a 15 year old'. It was hardly the worst insult to throw around. You didn't swear.
I've noticed a trend (on here and IRL) where any criticism of teachers is shot down in flames with 'you don't know how hard it is, you're part of the problem, we work so hard'. Other professions are incredibly hard work as well (social work, social care, nursing to name a few) and some people are good at their job and some people are shit.

I think the previous poster nailed it when they said the supply may have thought it was an internal logging system.

But wherever you are saying it please don't refer to a professionally qualified person as a 15 year old unless they are 15. As I said I was entirely on board with your whole case until you resorted to this as an insult (whatever forum you are saying it in).

Yes maybe but when someone resorts to making such disparaging remarks they lose my sympathy, the upper hand and kind of lose the battle. Stay classy and keep to the actual point and don't resort to making ageist insults. The Head is far more likely to respond positively.

That's good news. Communal punishment is appalling.

My daughter went from reception to year 10 without ever even being told off. No detention, no loss of points in seniors. They had a new teacher for a subject who gave out a full class detention. The reason was 'the majority of the class refused to engage in the lesson and work was not completed'
DD was so upset about this, she actually showed me the work she did in that class and said it was completed in full. I asked her if she talked. She said no, there were a couple of kids who just got on with it.
I called the school to speak to the head of year. HOY basically laughed at the thought of my DD in detention. She asked DD to bring that subject book in to see the work she had produced. The detention for her and a couple of others were revoked and the negative marks were removed.

My DDs year was particularly naughty. Even my DD has said she doesn't know how some teachers coped. We believe that the new teacher just needed to show her authority to try to gain some control.

I am proud to say that DD has now left school and has never had a detention. I am hoping for the same for my younger children too. However they are very different people so my expectations may need to be lowered a little

The proposed punishment is being applied contrary to school policy. That’s a dangerous message for a school to send in the first place.

Only the troublemakers should be punished. The teacher can identify them. The teacher clearly says it’s not the whole class.

Everyone on this thread is clear that school policy should be applied. That is the correct and just thing to happen.

I think people are answering based on the OP. She says her DC wasn't involved. On that basis people are saying they would not want their DC to do the detention. Plenty have said to check first he really wasn't involved.

I always have my DC's backs. I will always support them when necessary. They know I expect them to follow all school rules and wouldn't be happy to hear they hadn't. Equally I expect school to follow their policies and if they don't I speak up. My DC have always been very well behaved. My DD has 0 Behaviour points.

She knows you'll always have her back.

It’s pretty obvious to see why behaviour is out of control by looking at this thread. Several posters saying no way would their kid be doing the detention. Well I agree with them IF their child has done nothing wrong. But they aren’t saying I’m going to clarify with the school whether this is a whole class punishment or what exactly their child’s role is- no they have leapt straight to their child is not going to the detention. Says it all to me.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collective_punishment

Geneva Conventionsedit]
According to Médecins Sans Frontières:[3]
International law posits that no person may be punished for acts that he or she did not commit. It ensures that the collective punishment of a group of persons for a crime committed by an individual is forbidden...This is one of the fundamental guarantees established by the Geneva Conventions and their protocols. This guarantee is applicable not only to protected persons but to all individuals, no matter what their status, or to what category of persons they belong...

Is it really a supply teacher though (rare) or is it a cover supervisor with little or no relevant experience or qualifications earning minimum wage to maintain crowd control.

Teacher here and I really disagree with this sanction, definitely get in touch with the school. It just makes the well behaved students think why should they bother. Having said that this Year 7 cohort are really badly behaved in my school and I hear it from teachers in other schools. And of course the old chestnut of COVID is always rolled out as an excuse.
Behaviour in schools is gone absolutely mad and I honestly don’t know how it can be solved. Some parents can’t be bothered and defend their kids and some senior management just don’t want to step up and take measures to improve behaviour.
And of course it’s the good kids that suffer from impossible learning environments. And then the government/councils scratch their heads when they can’t retain staff but their is zero support for school employees and there are thousands leaving in their droves.

Are these the schools private school parents should be rushing to send their children to in order to "level the playing field"?

I definitely wouldn’t be listening to any teacher who sends messages like that 😄 if you want a class to respect you, you do have to put at least some effort into being professional, competent and confident. Yikes. I would definitely undermine that teacher in this instance 😬 I’d forward to SLT and explain the ridiculousness

Sorry, is that copy and paste of the message from teacher?? It’s practically incomprehensible.

Speak to his head of year and say exactly what you've said here. No, he does not deserve the detention if he did nothing wrong. Sometimes teachers, particularly if they are not familiar with the school's policy (supply) can get it wrong.