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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

The "terrifying threat from Labour"

317 replies

BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 13:50

I know that Tory HQ staff often come on here and post, and will be doing even more so at the moment.

I also know that Kier Starmer has done a terrible job in gender critical thinking, and members like him, Rayner and Lammy are currently an absolute shitshow when it comes to the rights and protections of women and children. I'm not looking forward to the battle we'll face after the election to reverse the damage that's been done and to protect those rights, and fully bring down all the MRA policies that have formally or informally kicked in over the last few years.

But does anyone else feel like the absolute barrage on here in the last few days about the Holy Bloody Handmaid Terror that will be Labour's government is a bit... overblown? A bit Tory HQ-flavoured? They're absolutely panicking at the moment and will do any kind of astroturfing they can to chip away at votes, particularly in swing constituencies like mine.

No party is perfect, and Labour is currently far from perfect for me and my children. But realistically, I have to vote Labour where I am if I want to keep a Tory candidate out. I hate their gender ID policies, but this nail-bitten tone of total and complete apocalypse (and yes, I've heard posters use that word in this context) feels unhelpful and not really equipping anyone to improve things after the GE. They made me feel extremely anxious until I just hit a wall with the frantic language, and now I'm feeling much more pragmatic and ready to fight with Labour on this stuff, rather than against them and allowing another party to get in.

So AIBU to feel that most of these posts are at least seeded by Tory HQ, rather than actual Labour voters like me?

<hard hat donned>

OP posts:
JaneV1984Madness · 02/07/2024 15:34

It's ridiculous, it should be a walk in the park, we should all be feeling jubilant esp someone like me.
Instead they are winning purely because of everyone is fed up with the tories.

JaneV1984Madness · 02/07/2024 15:31

Well i think yes, there is a huge risk of of us all loosing our minds if we are forced to look at a man in a dress and be forced to call him a woman...

That is Orwell 1984. I'm slightly above minimum wage and I don't think labour will benefit or help me at all.
My dd has mild sen and not a singled word about it schools have inspired me to to think they will help her.
My medical issues have taken years to even get near a consultant. I a still waiting but I am under no illusions that labour will sort that either.
. Because there is a fundamental lack of understanding as to what leads to sen issues in schools and so on.

Melisha · 02/07/2024 15:28

And a functioning NHS boosts the economy. It does not help the economy having people off long term sick waiting for a pretty simple operation.

Melisha · 02/07/2024 15:27

Our economy is in a terrible state. When the current Conservative government have had a decision to make around the economy, they always took the decision that shafted it. Instead they just tell us everywhere is the same. That is not true.

BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 15:26

cupcaske123 · 02/07/2024 15:26

Awful amount of people with the terrors on here. Shame mental health services have been run into the ground.

😂😂😂

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Flatulence · 02/07/2024 15:26

hamstersarse · 02/07/2024 14:18

I think anyone earning over £50k will be pretty pissed off with the prospect of a Labour government. They make it clear time and time again that 'rich' people are their target, and by rich they simply mean high tax earners.

For me it will be the lack of incentive to do well because of the tax burden that is terrifying - when will people realise that socialism doesn't work?!

I earn significantly more than 50k p/a, as does almost everyone I know and work with (the nature of my industry, once established). I've got everything crossed for a Labour government. The same can be said for most people I talk to - though I'm conscious we all exist in our own echo chambers.

Some current tax policies are a bit shit (the 'cliff edge' at 100k and 125k are a bit wincey, tbh, but we can thank the Tories for the current tax gap) but if me paying more in tax means better public services and people in min wage jobs being able to afford to put food on the table by keeping a bit more of their pay then bring it on.

As for incentives for working hard - I grew up poor, and self-funded my graduate training and study with minimum wage jobs and eye-watering debt. I keep working hard because the more I earn the better my life is. I'm immensely privileged to have a well paid job and I'll keep striving to earn more as I like having the money to save, invest and spend. I didn't have that when I was at the start of my career on well under 30k a year.

As I've done since I turned 18, I'll be voting Labour. I hope the Tories get annihilated at the polls as look at the absolute state of this country courtesy of 14 years of Brexshit, Truss, Partygate etc. and their non-dom, PPE-exploiting pals.

cupcaske123 · 02/07/2024 15:26

Awful amount of people with the terrors on here. Shame mental health services have been run into the ground.

BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 15:25

BloodyHellKenAgain · 02/07/2024 15:22

I voted YABU because I've been accused of being a Tufton St based Tory shill on here just for commenting on my worries around Labour adding VAT onto uni fees.

I'm nothing of the sort.

I think you're falling into the trap of assuming if someone has views you disagree with then they must be somehow dodgy and up to something, rather than an individual who just has different priorities to you.

No, it's not so much that everyone who disagrees must be Russian election interference, it's more the amount of threads and the extreme language used in some of them. To be fair, mostly MN posters respond with a far more equitable tone, it was just the wall of them these last few days with language more akin to a new rollercoaster at a theme park (YOU'LL LOSE YOUR MIND... AND YOUR WALLET).

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Melisha · 02/07/2024 15:25

Remember the impact the Brexit bus had. Everyone who understood Brexit knew it was a nonsense. It still made some people vote for Brexit.
I wish more people understood the economy. If you cared about the economy and jobs you would have voted Remain.
If you care about the economy and jobs you will vote for the Starmer Labour government.

JaneV1984Madness · 02/07/2024 15:25

Pay more tax and improve the NHS then PRAY they sort out this trans stuff because I'm not sure how many female nurses will tolerate men watching and perving at them in changing rooms?

AhNowTed · 02/07/2024 15:24

@LoveSandbanks

"Terrified of Starmer, that’s a bit strong!
Our household income is around £140k a year. We’re voting Labour. Can’t bloody wait to get the tories out. The only thing that worries me about Starmer is that he’s not left enough.

Do I think we might pay more tax? Possibly. Do I think that might lead to a better NHS and education system? Almost certainly. Along with lifting a significant number of school children out of poverty."

Similar situation here.

I cannot wait.

And any small tax increase will be tiny compared to the thousands I've had to pay out for a private dentist. There isn't an NHS dentist left in my town. Another thing the Tories have fucking decimated.

Lillianer · 02/07/2024 15:24

BeforetheDawn · 02/07/2024 14:04

I do understand that anything expressing any party affiliation will sound that way this week.

I think you've answered your own question!

Women are desperate. I have 3 young adult daughters and I know I am. Once we lose the legal definition of 'women' it's open season on the rights it's taken over 100 years to gain. This government is a corrupt clown show but once we have a leading party who define 'woman' as 'anyone who identifies as one' we've lost something it'll be very hard to reclaim.

Exactly. Terrifies me. No future party are going to be brave enough to retract self ID once it becomes 'normal'. This generation of Labour voting women might just be the undoing of future generations of women. Hope I'm wrong but I'm not having that one on my shoulders.

BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 15:23

Livelovebehappy · 02/07/2024 15:20

You’re implying that people have low enough intelligence to take on board what they see on Mumsnet, planted or not, as gospel. The majority of people have already made their mind up who they’re going to vote for. So if it is planted stuff from Tory admin, they clearly don’t know what they’re doing, and they’re leaving it a bit too last minute for it to have any effect.

I'd like to think so, but so many of my friends like me have been havering over voting Labour, and it just takes a few of these posts to nudge us into "well, never Labour then, I don't know who" and it only takes a handful of those to lose to Conservative in my constituency.

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BloodyHellKenAgain · 02/07/2024 15:22

I voted YABU because I've been accused of being a Tufton St based Tory shill on here just for commenting on my worries around Labour adding VAT onto uni fees.

I'm nothing of the sort.

I think you're falling into the trap of assuming if someone has views you disagree with then they must be somehow dodgy and up to something, rather than an individual who just has different priorities to you.

Livelovebehappy · 02/07/2024 15:20

You’re implying that people have low enough intelligence to take on board what they see on Mumsnet, planted or not, as gospel. The majority of people have already made their mind up who they’re going to vote for. So if it is planted stuff from Tory admin, they clearly don’t know what they’re doing, and they’re leaving it a bit too last minute for it to have any effect.

Alwaystired94 · 02/07/2024 15:20

JaneV1984Madness · 02/07/2024 15:03

Always tired, don't you think it's bad enough for women?.
Don't you think it's already bad enough, and yet your happy to now see a legal definition corrupted and changed to include any men who want to?

It's beyond bad 'enough' for women. But pretending that the single sex spaces will have anywhere near the impact that other policies will have for women is disingeuous.

BitOutOfPractice · 02/07/2024 15:19

Is that because it’s ok for posh people to be “the idle rich” and anyone else who doesn’t work 24/7 till they drop is part of the feckless poor @hamstersarse ?

BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 15:18

CastlesOnTheBeach · 02/07/2024 15:08

Giving young people the right to vote in elections is not gerrymandering. There is no objective reason why we set the voting age at 18; it has dropped over the years. Until 1969 you had to be 21 to vote.

On the other hand, the Conservatives really have been gerrymandering, and have admitted to it. They brought in voter ID because they thought that young people would be less likely to have it; they discovered that it was old people who didn't have it. Jacob Rees-Mogg has literally admitted to this https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65599380

Yes, fuck them for that.

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BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 15:18

The left have FAR more influence than the right. In fact, I don't know how the left can complain about bias and keep a straight face! They dominate everything!! The 'long march through the institutions' is pretty much complete. The left dominate the BBC, the universities, the arts, the publishing industry, even the libraries. For crying out loud, just wander through Waterstones and you'll see book after book attacking British history and British heroes. The media in this country is overwhelmingly liberal-left. If you really want to be a counter-cultural rebel, you have to be a patriotic conservative!

@Cooper77 I think about this a fair bit, and I'm not sure that's really accurate. That the major institutions are dominated by the Left, I don't disagree with at all - that's how the Left have shot themselves in the foot with all this gender stuff, now all the cultural institutions are telling us penises are allowed into women's wards (if they are magical female penises) and Joan of Arc was actually a trans man. Women are rightly up in arms about it.

But in terms of actual sway in society: look at who owns the major media platforms, besides the BBC - it's right-wing billionaires and oligarchs. Not to go all Marxist, but mainstream comms these days is very much 'unions are grifters, public sector workers are lazy leeches, only suckers pay taxes, and don't worry about the Tory government's behaviour, have you seen this celebrity's tweet about the Royal Family'? We don't have third spaces to debate major points face to face or listen to different people's stories, we just have our social media echo chambers, so headlines and news stories (and thus policies) are still often shaped by these billionaires' mouthpieces.

(I think gender ideology is the exception to this general rule.)

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blackcherryconserve · 02/07/2024 15:14

Greenismyfav · 02/07/2024 14:02

I agreed with you OP. I think Labour will be boring and not do as much as they or people would want or expect, but after the shit show we’ve had from the Tories.

I remember in 2015 their scare tactics were do you want a Tory government or ‘chaos with Ed Miliband’? Chaos with Ed Miliband would have been so much better than a brexit vote with David Cameron and all of the chaos we’ve had since.

This. 100%

Melisha · 02/07/2024 15:14

@VickyEadieofThigh that comment you are answering is a lie. Starmer said he keeps Friday evening free for his family. A pretty sensible thing to do.

FOJN · 02/07/2024 15:13

Melisha · 02/07/2024 15:08

The idea the rick are terrified of a Starmer Labour government is rubbish.
Traditional Conservative major donors and big businesses have donated to the Starmer Labour government. They are doing so because they know his plans will improve the economy and boost business.

Well of course, he's a globalist, neo liberal FFS. A Labour government will carry on transferring wealth to the rich.

Melisha · 02/07/2024 15:12

@Cooper77 I am a centrist. You sound like the type of Conservative party vote who is retired in a pretty village and wants to stop any house building within 5 miles of where they live.
For the rest of us, Labours policies will improve the economy. Conservative policies have made the economy worse. We need a strong economy before we can do anything else. We need businesses thriving and lots of decent paid jobs. The current Conservatives have already shown they can not deliver this.

VickyEadieofThigh · 02/07/2024 15:11

hamstersarse · 02/07/2024 14:29

It is quite terrifying that Starmer refuses to work "pretty much come what may" past 6 o'clock

Sounds totes committed

Whereas Tory PMs - Johnson, for example - have definitely been workaholics, eh?

BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 15:11

Do I think we might pay more tax? Possibly. Do I think that might lead to a better NHS and education system? Almost certainly. Along with lifting a significant number of school children out of poverty. The Tory policies we now have are a ticking time bomb and sure to cost us far more money in the long run. Children are getting a shite education which means they they won’t be fit for work, they’ll lead unhealthy lifestyles so there’ll be a burden on the NHS and society. Vulnerable families are not getting any support so swathes of children are being raised who will spend a lifetime bouncing in and out of prison at huge expense to the rest of us.

Exactly, @LoveSandbanks . It's a lot of sloganeering about "Labour would be WORSE" while absolutely and systematically fucking up all the functioning prospects for the country, from education and healthcare to trade and investment.

I agree it's a major issue to lose all the super-earners who'll jaunt abroad if they feel they're being taxed to heavily here, but things are going in reverse in terms of quality of life for pretty much everyone under the current government.

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