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Original poster

The "terrifying threat from Labour"

317 replies

BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 13:50

I know that Tory HQ staff often come on here and post, and will be doing even more so at the moment.

I also know that Kier Starmer has done a terrible job in gender critical thinking, and members like him, Rayner and Lammy are currently an absolute shitshow when it comes to the rights and protections of women and children. I'm not looking forward to the battle we'll face after the election to reverse the damage that's been done and to protect those rights, and fully bring down all the MRA policies that have formally or informally kicked in over the last few years.

But does anyone else feel like the absolute barrage on here in the last few days about the Holy Bloody Handmaid Terror that will be Labour's government is a bit... overblown? A bit Tory HQ-flavoured? They're absolutely panicking at the moment and will do any kind of astroturfing they can to chip away at votes, particularly in swing constituencies like mine.

No party is perfect, and Labour is currently far from perfect for me and my children. But realistically, I have to vote Labour where I am if I want to keep a Tory candidate out. I hate their gender ID policies, but this nail-bitten tone of total and complete apocalypse (and yes, I've heard posters use that word in this context) feels unhelpful and not really equipping anyone to improve things after the GE. They made me feel extremely anxious until I just hit a wall with the frantic language, and now I'm feeling much more pragmatic and ready to fight with Labour on this stuff, rather than against them and allowing another party to get in.

So AIBU to feel that most of these posts are at least seeded by Tory HQ, rather than actual Labour voters like me?

<hard hat donned>

OP posts:
PowerTulle · 02/07/2024 17:46

but I'm just not convinced that the second Starmer's in power women will cease existing completely in legal form

Perhaps BigWord. But much of the problem is about social and behavioral norms changing, not just legal status. Labour is much more likely to swallow the ideology and continue to permit the law to be abused or ignored in favour of being progressive. We see this already where legal exceptions are not being applied and women are disadvantaged and pushed to take legal action themselves by default.

And as for the comment about Starmer stating gender ideology will not be taught in schools. How does that square with their manifesto stating there will be no ‘conversation’ therapy for gender identity? Which is basically saying only affirmative care is permitted. This completely contradicts the Cass recommendations.

cardibach · 02/07/2024 17:44

Cooper77 · 02/07/2024 15:07

The left have FAR more influence than the right. In fact, I don't know how the left can complain about bias and keep a straight face! They dominate everything!! The 'long march through the institutions' is pretty much complete. The left dominate the BBC, the universities, the arts, the publishing industry, even the libraries. For crying out loud, just wander through Waterstones and you'll see book after book attacking British history and British heroes. The media in this country is overwhelmingly liberal-left. If you really want to be a counter-cultural rebel, you have to be a patriotic conservative!

I regard myself as a moderate conservative. Actually, I'd say 'left-wing conservative' best suits me. But I am terrified of what's coming, and I say that with my hand on my heart. We are about to elect a socialist government with a massive majority. Obviously they will wreck the economy, that kind of goes without saying. But they will also do nothing to control immigration. On the contrary, it will get worse. Some Labour activists believe in open borders ffs. If the Tories let in 750,000 people in one year, what the hell are Labour going to do? If they have a huge majority, they'll disregard any protests and open the floodgates. That means endless, and I mean endless, house building. Make the most of those fields where you walk your dog. In fact, make the most of any quiet rural spot where you go to escape the noise and traffic, because after ten years of Starmer, central and southern England are going to be covered in ghastly rabbit hutch houses jammed on top of one another.

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The left dominate everything apart from actual government which has overwhelmingly been right wing for the whole history of democracy in the U.K.?
How can people be so deluded?
The rest of your post is utter nonsense too.

Theunamedcat · 02/07/2024 17:44

Just consider in 14 years what the Conservative party has done to protect women

IdLikeToBeAFraser · 02/07/2024 17:43

newnamethanks · 02/07/2024 17:37

Terrifying that KS won't work Friday nights? You scare very easily @hamstersarse. It can't be good for you, be calm. If he was ditching his security detail and sneaking off, whereabouts unknown, for a weekend party at the expense of a dodgy Russian then your terror would be understandable but, of course, it was a recent Tory PM who did that as I expect you recall. KS will just be having dinner with his family.

Up 2 flights of stairs from his office.... Not exactly MIA.

HarrietPierce · 02/07/2024 17:42

"On a Friday. When he respects his wife’s religion and goes home to spend time with family."

Re finishing work at 6 pm on a Friday the Tories .have been accused of anti semitism for weaponising this.

IdLikeToBeAFraser · 02/07/2024 17:42

@saraclara I so agree. And because the economy is in such a state (I don't blame the Tories alone - the world has had a tough time, but they do have a LOT to answer for. PLUS, I cannot stand their happy little dances about how inflation has come down --- whoopee doo, my shopping and mortgage costs are still about 40% up on where they were 2 years ago...), I worry constantly about how the safety net just doesn't seem to be there anymore.

I live in leafy surrey so I supsect we are cushioned from a lot of things, but we're still seeing the effect in our own lives and the lives of the people around us. And it' feels like it's getting worse. The Conservatives have proven they can't solve these things so I don't understand why anyone keeps voting for them.

T1Dmama · 02/07/2024 17:42

In my mind I wish everyone who supports a party voted for them! If everyone who is currently saying ‘I’d vote for X but it would be a wasted vote because they’d never get in’ actually voted for the party they want they might actually stand a chance

cardibach · 02/07/2024 17:40

Yalta · 02/07/2024 15:04

The issue with targeting the rich is that they can afford to get on a plane and go anywhere in the world
To then pay for all the stuff money has been spent on as “the rich” have gone, it’s those on under £50k who cannot move who end up paying for it

Be very careful of what you wish for

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So we should not even try to get them to pay their way?
They don’t do it in great numbers because 1) there’s a reason they chose to be here (will be different for each one) and 2) the tax burden on them here isn’t really that big.

Original poster
BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 17:38

Yalta · 02/07/2024 17:33

What about those people who can’t afford to pay more tax. Those that are balancing on a knife edge each month to make ends meet because I can guarantee that it won’t just target those on household incomes of £140,000 or more per year but those with incomes of £40,000 per year and less

Whilst you won’t mind having less in your pay packet can you not understand that others might not be able to afford such things

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It is life-destroying to live on a financial knife-edge long-term, I don't disagree. But it's 14 years of a Conservative government who have got us to this stage, and if we stayed with them another 14 years there's not a single indicator that it would improve. I think we need to stop conflating what's happened already with what could happen under a different government just because for 14 years the Tory slogan has been "Well, Labour would be worse".

And who would actually make it better, if you don't want to vote Labour? (That's not rhetorical, I just haven't seen any manifestos or financial plans that make me think aha! That's the one that will improve the UK economy for sure! I mean, even the IFS have put question marks next to every party's plans.)

OP posts:
newnamethanks · 02/07/2024 17:37

Terrifying that KS won't work Friday nights? You scare very easily @hamstersarse. It can't be good for you, be calm. If he was ditching his security detail and sneaking off, whereabouts unknown, for a weekend party at the expense of a dodgy Russian then your terror would be understandable but, of course, it was a recent Tory PM who did that as I expect you recall. KS will just be having dinner with his family.

Yalta · 02/07/2024 17:33

LoveSandbanks · 02/07/2024 15:07

Terrified of Starmer, that’s a bit strong!
Our household income is around £140k a year. We’re voting Labour. Can’t bloody wait to get the tories out. The only thing that worries me about Starmer is that he’s not left enough.

Do I think we might pay more tax? Possibly. Do I think that might lead to a better NHS and education system? Almost certainly. Along with lifting a significant number of school children out of poverty. The Tory policies we now have are a ticking time bomb and sure to cost us far more money in the long run. Children are getting a shite education which means they they won’t be fit for work, they’ll lead unhealthy lifestyles so there’ll be a burden on the NHS and society. Vulnerable families are not getting any support so swathes of children are being raised who will spend a lifetime bouncing in and out of prison at huge expense to the rest of us.

I’ll be honest, I don’t see how things can get much worse unless Farage gets in!

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What about those people who can’t afford to pay more tax. Those that are balancing on a knife edge each month to make ends meet because I can guarantee that it won’t just target those on household incomes of £140,000 or more per year but those with incomes of £40,000 per year and less

Whilst you won’t mind having less in your pay packet can you not understand that others might not be able to afford such things

JaneV1984Madness · 02/07/2024 17:33

@BigWordAtlas but how when it maybe made a hate crime?
In real life right now nurses have been told to re educate themselves when they complained about a trans man.
Another nurse was suspended when she complained.

saraclara · 02/07/2024 17:29

I genuinely don't understand how someone can be 'terrified' of Labour but not be already terrified about the state of our Country?

Yep. I'm terrified about my granddaughters' educational futures given that they're aren't the teachers out there to teach them.
I'm terrified that if I have a massive stroke (like my mum and grandfather) or stage 4 cancer (like my late husband) any care and support I get will be a fraction of what was available to them 15 years ago, and way too late.

My 'I'm terrified about' list is actually too long to continue typing, and every single thing on it is a consequence of 14 years of the Tories. As if course is the trans issue, yet somehow people believe they the Tories will keep their word on that.

cardibach · 02/07/2024 17:26

hamstersarse · 02/07/2024 14:40

Never spewed Tory hate? You must be a very rare Labour party voter, it's in the DNA

I noticed it when I grew up and moved more to the right. I had never had any viciousness from the right when I was a loud member of the Labour party, yet one slight move to the right, small c conservative, and the vitriol that comes your way from the left is relentless.

And yeah, Farage is very like Hitler, you are totally right

https://x.com/ArchRose90/status/1807445277625794737

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Oh FFS. Voting right isn’t more grown up. Plus - ypu could describe my feeling for the current crop of Tories as hatred (same as Thatcher) but I don’t hate all Tories. Just hateful ones. And I’ve still never called one of them Hitler.

Original poster
BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 17:25

EasternStandard · 02/07/2024 17:22

I don’t get your emoji response

I’m interested to know what happens when a man with a GRC or without one is in a female space under Labour

Do you know?

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Sorry, Izzard just makes me heave these days. Such a disappointment, to go from "it's a man's dress because I'm a man wearing it" to "actually I'm a girl and terrified girls in toilets when I go in can fuck off with their bigotry".

Yes, I agree, it's not known and at the moment it definitely doesn't look good. But I still believe that we're at a turning point in this toxic ideology, and people like Izzard and his supporters using violent language against women are going to get short shrift from the public sooner rather than later. I hope!

OP posts:
Runaway1 · 02/07/2024 17:23

I’m voting for the single
issue Party for Women to try to force the left to see that this issue will
lose them votes. I don’t feel I have any other choices.

cardibach · 02/07/2024 17:22

hamstersarse · 02/07/2024 14:29

It is quite terrifying that Starmer refuses to work "pretty much come what may" past 6 o'clock

Sounds totes committed

On a Friday. When he respects his wife’s religion and goes home to spend time with family. Remember all the fuss about Keir’s Beer? That was late at night if you remember.

EasternStandard · 02/07/2024 17:22

BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 17:18

Eddie Izzard 🙁

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I don’t get your emoji response

I’m interested to know what happens when a man with a GRC or without one is in a female space under Labour

Do you know?

cupcaske123 · 02/07/2024 17:18

Alwaystired94 · 02/07/2024 17:15

and the Tories don't exactly have a great history of sticking to their promises.

So what, vote for them for this reason and then they don't do it? and continue to screw women over in all other aspects?

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They've had plenty of time to get their act in gear. Deeds not words.

Original poster
BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 17:18

EasternStandard · 02/07/2024 16:32

@Melisha Who is proposing legislative change to the EqA?

And what is Labour proposing to do if a man with a GRC uses a public toilet at say, a train station. Or someone such as Eddie Izzard for that matter

Could you be explicit as you say you understand the law, and I haven’t seen an answer from anyone

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Eddie Izzard 🙁

OP posts:
gracie061088 · 02/07/2024 17:18

I won't be voting to any. I am just saying

Original poster
BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 17:17

PowerTulle · 02/07/2024 16:27

For me there are some issues that will always be in flux but that can be managed differently. So economics, healthcare, social policy etc can be shaped according to the party in power. It will always be so.

But changing the very definition and legal status of an entire sex class, half the population, is absolutely fundamental and likely to be irreversible. If you can’t keep a consistent definition of woman/girl/female then you can no longer describe us. You can’t count us in data, point at injustice and lack of equality and you can’t plan for change to effect us or define how and why we need different solutions.

That’s the difference for me, it’s a single issue that will never be reversible and impacts the rights of every woman, from cradle to grave. And Labour have been very clear that they do not want to define sex or protect it’s meaning or application as a characteristic.

I've felt like this for a long time, but now that it's almost hours until the GE, I just don't think Labour will go this far - they have too many donors and public supporters who don't believe in this ideology (any more).

People have had to eat their words over less, so I hope I'm right to be optimistic on this, and in no way is the fight over, but I'm just not convinced that the second Starmer's in power women will cease existing completely in legal form. I know that so much damage has been done already, and we have to keep battling on undoing those, but I don't think it'll be this simple deletion as his first task stepping into No. 10.

OP posts:
Alwaystired94 · 02/07/2024 17:15

gracie061088 · 02/07/2024 17:14

Politicians will only say what are appealing to the people just to get votes. Once they are in power, they just ignore their promises during election.

and the Tories don't exactly have a great history of sticking to their promises.

So what, vote for them for this reason and then they don't do it? and continue to screw women over in all other aspects?

gracie061088 · 02/07/2024 17:14

Politicians will only say what are appealing to the people just to get votes. Once they are in power, they just ignore their promises during election.

Original poster
BigWordAtlas · 02/07/2024 17:12

MyGladEagle · 02/07/2024 16:10

You're confusing socialism with collectivism, they are not the same thing

Japan is a capitalist country with a collective philosophy

A socialist economy with an individual philosophy results in abuse and corruption, you'll just get a lot of people sitting around drinking all day, businesses getting fat off the state while socialising their losses, and a lot of resentment rather than a fairer society. This has happened recently with our benefits system, the NHS and the bank bailouts.

Socialism worked well in the post war era because there was a cohesive society where people were willing to act with honesty and integrity for each other. They didn't abuse the benefits system or the NHS. It was shameful to be on the dole.

Similarly the reason it works better in places like Finland is because their population sizes are much smaller than ours and more cohesive, 5 million v 70 million. You wouldn't use the same principles for running a 5 person business as you would for a 70 person business.

At the moment I don't think it matters what socialist policies the UK implements as the societal fabric of the country currently isn't strong enough to support them without corruption. Labour are fixated on individualism and identity and have no sense of collectivism.

Ironically, only the far right are offering some elements of what you're asking for. Low immigration and a sense of national identity. I'm not a supporter of the far right btw and wouldn't advocate voting for them, I will vote Labour. But if you're expecting the UK to become a collective society via Labour you're quite a way off the mark.

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I agree with almost all of what you're saying here, but I'm definitely not asking for low immigration or a sense of national identity. I think the social cohesion and collectivised mentality is what I'd love to see, but you're right, Labour are still trying to find a popular vote in a Thatcherite country so they don't even really have the tools to encourage the collective thinking in this wide and diverse country.

OP posts: