The "terrifying threat from Labour"

Don't let facts get in the way of political sloganeering.

@TempestTost I have said elsewhere I have voted both Labour and Conservative. I think it is a waste of time looking at governments that were voted out 14 years ago. We need to look at the people we have now and their manifesto. Starmer is not Blair mark 2. That is very clear.
Starmer's Labour party have credible economic policies, a decent manifesto and people with the track record to enact it.
I am voting for Starmer's labour party.
I tend to like centrists. I liked John Major, a Conservative Prime Minister who reminds me of Starmer. Both highly intelligent with a decent grasp of economics, highly competent, and both were bad at TV appearances.
Unlike many people on here it seems I look at facts. Not the equivalent of word memes trying to boil down this election to simplistic slogans that sound meaningful, but really are not. I am aware that is unusual these days.
It is stupid to talk about past Labour governments, just as it is stupid to talk about past Conservative governments. We have had some very good Conservative governments in the past, but this lot are economically illiterate and incompetent.

Debt was climbing well before the pandemic, though @TempestTost

I'm not quite sure what you are responding to in my comment? I'm certainly not saying they haven't run up a debt.

To what extent that is due to world events, I'm not sure. It seems the same in many countries at the moment.

My point however was that when people talk about things being better under Blair, they need to remember that a) he financed that by debt, and b) had he remained in power, it would not have been sustainable.

@SnowFrogJelly I do not know who is posting on here. I do know we get the same posters who keep repeating the same lies. Lies that they are shown are untrue. But they are not interested in the truth. They simply hope if they keep repeating lies about Starmer and Labour that some people will believe them.

I know that Tory HQ staff often come on here and post, and will be doing even more so at the moment.

Yeah course they do..

I am so tired of so many lies being told. It is like the Brexit bus all over again.
Starmer is a centrist with strong economic policies. We need a strong economy to have good public services.

@TempestTost this conservative government have run up an enormous debt. Absolutely enormous. They are fiscally imprudent and we do not even have anything to show for it.

What's an actual thing?

Blir funded the NHS by borrowing though. It's still eating into NHS budgets toaday.

So do we blame that missing money on the Tories, or Labour?

The cycle with Labour seems to be they get in, make some service improvements, but overplay their hand and get into some kind of debt, then they get tossed and the Tories have some kind of austerity situation. Thatcher, for all people blamed her, and her decisions weren't perfect, was left with a significant mess and few options.

Blair claimed to have learned the lesson from that, but I'm not sure that is true. Had he been reelected, they were going to have to make real cutbacks.

I don't think Labour will be able to do that now. Between the financial crash and COVID, the pot is truly care, no room to wiggle, no money to borrow. So I suspect what will happen is they won't be able to do much of what people think they will.

They will be reduced to throwing bones to the TRA lobby, and trying to make it as difficult as possible for people to opt out of the state educating their children.

I think you could make a strong argument that for Labour, social justice lobby groups have replaced unions.

Labour has really largely given up on class based socialism. That's why there are people in this thread who think that reducing trade barriers and free international movement of labour is what the Labour party is about - that was never a left wing position, it's completely a right wing position.

Having given up on class based concerns, the things that unions cared about, they've now hitched their wagon to identity politics concerned, as represented by groups like Stonewall. They now play the kind of role that unions were playing back in the 70s.

Do you think that could be because it’s an actual thing?

All the more reason why Starmer has done an amazing job against that backdrop.

@cupcaske123 Yalta does not understand that NICE saying a particular treatment is no longer deemed safe is not the same as cuts. The NHS is in a mess. But I would never let a GP private or NHS syringe my ears.

@Yalta I know what the NHS say about this. I have been to the NHS recently about ear wax and I understand the reason why they no longer routinely do this. They will do it exceptionally. But it carries risks.
GP surgeries used to offer manual ear syringing using a hand-held metal syringe. However, this method is no longer considered safe for use as it used high pressure water and could damage your hearing.
NICE doesn't recommend syringing because there is a lack of evidence to show it's safe and effective and – because the water pressure isn't controlled – there's a risk of bursting the ear drum.
You have to use olive oil for weeks to get rid of it. Most people want very quick fixes though and so do not do it.

Why are you banging on about ear cleaning?

The country is in an absolute shambles and all you seem to care about is ear wax.

Ear syringing is no longer considered a basic NHS service.

Yes, the tabloids put out blatant misinformation and not news. This is nothing new.

Elections are decided by people who can't read the DM or other tabloids without moving their lips and the Tories control the media. In this way The odds are stacked against Labour and The SNP. The DM has been running a smear campaign against the SNP for years.

@Yalta You show little understanding of medical protocols. Ear cleaning has not been stopped under the NHS. It has simply been reversed for people where other methods do not work.
Ear cleaning brings risks. Virtually everyone can have wax removed by using olive oil. But it can take a while. Most people try for a week or less, and then give up.

I am sure they did as you couldn’t actually get on one as doctors would diagnose and treat you for something that wasn’t wrong with you rather than putting you in a waiting list for anything

No they are not

Do we have a basic rate of tax at 30%
Do we have a higher rate of tax at 80%
Do we have a higher rate of tax for income and savings at 98%

Or the Supertax in the 60s at 95%

And still we had shit services with rubbish piled high

I'm sorry to hear about your personal experience.

But cold hard statistics show that waiting lists, across the board, came right down under the Blair government.

Under the last Labour government I was told that I couldn’t have an MRI (too expensive at £300)

Instead they left me in constant agony for 7 years treating me for something I didn’t have) Eventually went private.

My experience of the NHS whatever government is in charge has been pretty crap.
The lack of foresight is staggering

Eg if dementia can be brought on in older people by hearing loss and to treat a person with dementia costs thousands

Why stop ear cleaning on the NHS.

I agree taxes are higher than ever before and public services are shit. The issue is not taxes, the issue is how the government are spending their money.

Nope, we'll all pay more.

I look forward to hearing you bleat about it.