Kier Starmer - what he'll be like as a PM

Kier Starmer is the kind of politician I want to see in parliament: successful (outside politics, i.e. not another career politician), history of public service, hardworking, intelligent. He doesn't seem particularly dull to me, I mean he is asked policy questions - the poor guy, but I accept people find him so. Dull isn't a negative for me in a politician.

I struggle with the woman question. I think it is not well thought through and could be very damaging for women. In regards to the toilets convo above, I would also say third spaces are the only reasonable and vaguely practical solution. I would support these.

But much as I have real and I think valid concerns with the gender identity policies, I also have a lot of other concerns - and on a lot of the other issues (which often disproportionately impact women anyway), I think Labour are better. So I will probably vote for them anyway. Also I am not convinced the Tories or Lib Dems are any better on that issue

'Practical. That's it. A separate loo or something which should not be beyond us.'

But there isn't an infinite of space to build these extra toilets. Ask disabled people who would dearly love more accessible facilities.

What we need to do is adapt what we have. A sign on mens toilets saying gender neutral would surely suffice?

Fine by me. I don’t think women are the barrier to third spaces as single sex spaces are then protected

It tends to be TRA opposition there

It is a pity Starmer accepted those free football tickets. What was the point of that?

I accept that most people don't know feminine trans folk in their everyday lives.

So it might be hard to appreciate how awful, impractical and soul-destroying their lives can be.

Again, feminine trans folk need to go to the loo. Men's loos are dangerous places for these people.

The solution is a practical and one, which does not mean women giving up our single-sex spaces.

Practical. That's it. A separate loo or something which should not be beyond us.

@EasternStandard @Janiie

Again..

And no, it’s not women’s responsibility to give up their single-sex spaces in order to solve where trans women go to the loo, or get changed, or access healthcare, or indeed go to prison.

HOWEVER it IS society’s issue to solve where trans women do these things, because no one could surely think it’s acceptable, or safe, for feminine trans women to have to use a men’s public toilet, or changing room.

And it can’t be beyond us to find a practical solution, to what is for the most part a practical problem.

@EasternStandard

I never said it was.

What people wear or put on their faces is not relevant to sex

@Janiie

For the avoidance of doubt, I said this:

And no, it’s not women’s responsibility to give up their single-sex spaces in order to solve where trans women go to the loo, or get changed, or access healthcare, or indeed go to prison.

@Janiie

"So you think these transpeople should be allowed to use women's facilities on the basis that a minoirty of men may react and attack them? Can you really not see the irony in your posts?"

Please re-read my post. I absolutely did not say that. Quite the opposite.

So you think these transpeople should be allowed to use women's facilities on the basis that a minoirty of men may react and attack them? Can you really not see the irony in your posts?

'Honestly, many do. Many present more feminine than I do!'

No. They don't. No amount of lipstick and ladies clothes can disguise the size of hands, the size of shoulders, feet, their gait etc. General masculine traits.

@Janiie

"They don't pass as feminine, we can spot them at 50 paces."

Honestly, many do. Many present more feminine than I do!

@Janiie

"what are trans people afraid of, Is it really getting attacked by men?"

Yes, of course. It happens every day.

"The only solution is having a gender neutral cubicle in the mens toilet"

Or a separate gender neutral toilet.

They don't pass as feminine, we can spot them at 50 paces. Yes it may be a minority who have predatory tendencies but nonetheless we must legislate for all it can't obviously be on a case by case basis.

Trans people need to be practical. Shop online as many if not most people do nowadays so there'd is no need to access women's changing areas in shops. Toilets? Well I'd plan my day so I could go to the toilet at home. I've no idea what is wrong with using men's facilities when out and about though, what are trans people afraid of, Is it really getting attacked by men?

The only solution is having a gender neutral cubicle in the mens toilet. A combined facility.

@EasternStandard

Honestly I'm in no position to suggest changes to legislation.

But I do see that, for the most part, these are practical problems.

But they involve money. And pubs and clubs and swimming pools etc ad infinitum.

The hard bit.

What actual chance are you expecting under Labour wrt legislative change?

@AhNowTed that all sounds very reasonable and I'm thinking the same. This has all got crazy and so polarised.

On the subject of trans women, which tends to dominate these threads.

Many trans folk present very convincingly as feminine women.
Some not so much.
Most trans women are totally harmless and just want to live their lives, with respect, in line with the wider population.
A small minority are potentially dangerous, in line with the wider population.

And no, it’s not women’s responsibility to give up their single-sex spaces in order to solve where trans women go to the loo, or get changed, or access healthcare, or indeed go to prison.

HOWEVER it IS society’s issue to solve where trans women do these things, because no one could surely think it’s acceptable, or safe, for feminine trans women to have to use a men’s public toilet, or changing room.

And it can’t be beyond us to find a practical solution, to what is for the most part a practical problem.

But it is difficult. It would involve extra loos and changing rooms, and hospital beds, and money. And legislation to protect women who want female-only healthcare professionals.

That’s the hard bit, and no one, from any political party, has an answer to this yet.

Having said that, I do believe that Labour has woken up, and the penny has dropped. And I would trust them to take this issue seriously, as opposed to empty rhetoric from the Tories.

Having lived in Wales under Welsh Labour rule, be careful what you wish for.

And no, it is not because we receive less money, we are just worse at spending it suitably

Spend per head (£)

England (average)
£12,227

Wales
£13,967

It is no better under Red Rule, here is a brief overview of their utter incompetence. Yes the Conservatives have totally done the same in England / UK, but do not think that this is a magical red pill. It will be much of the same, just under a different colour tie.

1. Pupils in Wales perform only as well as disadvantaged children in England – IFS

1. NHS Wales waiting times: Ambulance response second worst ever

1. 29% of respondents in Wales said they were currently waiting for a hospital appointment, test or treatment through the NHS for Scotland the estimate was 25%, and for England it was 21%

1. Vaughan Gething received £200,000 in donations from environmental offender's company

1. The Welsh government’s deputy climate change minister has told ITV Cymru Wales he is “not concerned” about the value of Cardiff Airport despite it falling in value by £37 million since the government bought it. The airport was sold to the government for £52 million in 2013, but was valued at just £15 million in 202

1. Transport for Wales has UK's lowest customer satisfaction rate

1. Welsh Government has been accused of spending a whooping £4.25million to buy a farm site for a popular music festival before much of it was declared out of bounds due to nesting ospreys, it has been reported

1. The Relief Road project, which was scrapped in 2019, cost £135.7 million up to the point it was decided not to proceed. The money was spent on development work such as environmental surverys, ground investigation and transport models, Mr Drakeford confirmed

1. ban on supermarkets selling non-essential items during Wales' lockdown will be reviewed after the weekend, First Minister Mark Drakeford has said. (books, paper, household items etc)

AhNowTed · Today 15:12
This thread is wild.

Apparently Starmer's responsible for the state the country's in!!

Onviously. It will only get worse, too. He expects to share a meal with his family once a week.

Lazy, entitled bastard.!

(Am I the only one thinking of the glorious Paul Ritter and Chrimble Crumble?)

Yes which is why the country is in such a state after Boris, Sunak and Cameron and their chinless wonder Tory chums.

Jacob Rees-Mogg is the physical embodiment of Walter the Softy.

So tough.

If I wanted someone funny I would go to a comedy show if I wanted charisma I would go to listen to a preacher.
I just want competence and honesty.

Weak men make hard times.

I think some people don't understand how the system works!

Yeah Starmer's such an underachiever 😂