To be surprised there are a lot more very anxious/fearful people out there than I thought?

Understood Whothefuckdoesthat 😀

I can be a bit of a recluse when things get too much so totally get it!

Exactly. It just doesn’t sound plausible that they could all be capable of dating (which takes a lot of confidence and stamina) but also suffer from such severe anxiety that they can’t ever bear to go to the works do.

I’m curious that the people who were able to force themselves out there, to maintain friendships, to socialise, always found it difficult but just did it till they got a partner, or if it became difficult later.

also are their partners the same.

@Whothefuckdoesthat

It was your follow up question that was rude as fuck, along with your demand that I explain it to you and your faux apology; ‘I’m sorry if you think…’

OK so you have made the point that you think I was rude, I have apologised and you apparently don’t accept that so I am not sure how much more you want to do. I apologise again for what it’s worth but its my perspective and you still haven’t said anything to disabuse me of it by getting very offended.

I still find it a bit fishy that people who are capable of putting themselves out there enough to do enough dating to find a mate apparently can’t cope with a bit of light and occasional social activity.

It suggests to me one of several scenarios are playing out:

a) that the act of making friends is more burdensome or demanding than the act of building a new intimate relationship (which I really struggle with because I find dating FAR more stressful as do most people). OR:

b) that something has happened in the interim between meeting the spouse and the present day which has put them off socialising. OR:

c) that such people put a higher premium on being in a relationship than they do in friendship and, having moved heaven and earth to find a mate and secured the spouse they inwardly say “my work is done” and stop bothering. Which I suspect applies most of the time.

I am trying to understand which of these scenarios is closest to the truth and your answers aren’t shedding much light on this.

Which is fine but then don’t be surprised if people find the claim that all these married people who have at some point dated are now far too anxious to socialise a bit dubious.

Insightful analysis.

I really appreciate such a nice reply, but you’ve got absolutely nothing to apologise for. I did say that it was because I was unfriendly, so please don’t worry. If I didn’t want anyone to comment on it, I shouldn’t have posted it 🙂

As a baseline, I’m quite unfriendly, even without the mh stuff, so I wouldn’t chat even if I was perfectly healthy. Or maybe I would, who knows?! 😁

Fair enough now that you have explained more. I can totally understand your pov.

Apologies if I misread the tone of your post which is hard to judge on here sometimes.

Also it was confusing because originally you stated, "But my mental health isn’t the reason I don’t want to do these things" but in your follow-up post you put "although I didn’t specifically say it, it takes every ounce of my mental energy to get through each day" which to be fair casts everything in a bit of a different light.

If you are suffering with certain mh conditions or neuro diversity, and are at your wits end, of course you don't want anyone adding to the stresses of your already stressful day. That's totally reasonable and understandable. So again, apologies if I misunderstood.

I don't typically answer the door unless I'm expecting someone, or if it's when the postie or a delivery is due. A random knocker will nearly always be someone doing door-to-door sales or trying to convert me! I'll glance out the window to make sure it's not someone I know though.

I don't answer the phone if I don't recognise the number, as it's usually a sales call or a scam. If it's a genuine call they'll leave a message and I phone back.

I don't engage with random male strangers who make conversation with me (beyond saying a polite hello and moving on), because I don't want to have to deal with potential ulterior motives. That's from years of experience! I'll happily make small talk with female strangers though.

None of this is anxiety-driven. I'm just older and less tolerant of having my time impinged upon, compared to when I was a more compliant/less bolshy younger woman!

I didn’t think your initial question was insulting at all. I think I said it was genuine and thoughtful and that I‘d have been happy to answer it from my own perspective.

It was your follow up question that was rude as fuck, along with your demand that I explain it to you and your faux apology; ‘I’m sorry if you think…’

@Whothefuckdoesthat

Let me remind you what you said; ‘Isn’t it really just that you can’t be arsed now you have met your partner?’ Can you really not see how that is beyond fucking insulting? Because if you can’t, then I don’t think there is enough time in the day to explain it to you.

OK then explain this to me. Why is it easier to go on a date with a potential life partner than have a coffee a girlfriend? This genuinely makes no sense to me at all and I think people are not being entirely honest about this.

I am sorry if you think this is insulting. But I just don’t really buy it.

Wow. Each to their own, and it isn't incumbent on anyone to provide emotional support to a stranger, but five minutes chatting to an elderly person at the bus-stop who is probably lonely and doesn't have anyone in their life to chat to that day, isn't exactly burdensome. Why so much anger about it? No anger at all. And in my experience, it is never lonely pensioners. But I’m still not going to do it because experience has taught me that it can be difficult to shake them off afterwards, partly because I want just a few minutes peace before my day takes off and I have to be switched on and, although I didn’t specifically say it, it takes every ounce of my mental energy to get through each day. I’m not going to tell a little old lady to sod off, of course not. But I won’t be encouraging it.

And the message you are sending to your toddler is that all strangers are annoying and should be avoided. It's your decision but have you thought that they might need to ask a stranger on the bus to help them one day if they are ill or lost. But I suppose that would be fine the other way around? Not my decision, he’s not actually mine. But I hope he’s learning that when a strange man you don’t know asks your name and whether you live locally, you’re not obliged to tell them. Nor do you need to let your over priced lunch go cold to entertain a man who is bored while waiting for his wife and son. And aforementioned toddler is being taught to seek help from bus drivers, someone in a shop, police officers etc, rather than random strangers, in an emergency. Also, there’s a big difference between not wanting to engage in casual conversation and helping someone in an emergency. If he’d been ill or struggling to pay his bill, then of course I’d step in and offer help. But this wasn’t that.

I get that it's very annoying opening the front door to random strangers disturbing your down time, and people trying to sell stuff, but one day the person at your door might be trying to tell you your chimney is on fire, which is what happened to us! I take your point, but I live in a shoebox sized flat. I can hear seagulls landing on the roof. I’m also surrounded by neighbours. We are jam packed together. If it’s an emergency, there’ll be more than a simple knock on the door, so I think I’ll be fine.

I don't open my door sometimes or answer my phone but nothing to do with anxiety lol I just can't be arsed with people sometimes

I actually know someone like this irl, and still can't work it out. Doesn't like to speak on the phone because of anxiety. At a social event (surrounded by good friends) saying she was struggling with social anxiety at that moment - which made no sense to me, if I'm feeling socially anxious I'm sure as hell too anxious to mention it and just trying to blend in and act normal! But she has plenty of friends, good, deep friendships, and an interesting career where she has to really put herself out there. (Having got to know her better, I'm sure it's not attention seeking, just it doesn't make sense how it works!)

Can't speak for anyone else, but on this point there are a few things that could be in the picture:

At the top is: You don't choose to have anxiety. It can most definitely manifest in a different area than the one you think it would be justified in, and not just shift. A relative has developed immense anxiety about car travel (never previously), but very much since a period of 6 months where their spouse of 50 years was in hospital due to a life-threatening reaction to meds. Can't really change that 6 months.

Closely behind this: the friend cares about her friends and their opinions, and she is willing to be honest and perhaps vulnerable when with them - by saying how she's feeling. She will value their friendships even though she's struggling. She probably only has surface feelings about people she does not know. It will be a struggle but it's another way to be striving to be fulfilled and accepting of herself (which the OP thinks has been provided by therapy as another pathway). No approach is the perfect, or quick, solution that will work for everyone in the same way, with anxiety probably coming from very different places.

Aggressive 😂 Are you being serious? I’m just checking because I’m not sure whether you’re following the darvo model, you have a very peculiar way of talking to people or you’re just on a giant wind up.

You’ve asked a really genuine and thoughtful question (which I would have happily have answered from my own perspective) then followed it up with an implication that, if we have a partner, we’re faking any difficulties we have with social occasions and are just being lazy. And now, when I’ve responded in a similar manner, you’re calling me aggressive and claiming that it was just an innocent observation? Bollocks was it! 😂 If you write aggressive posts, you’ll get aggressive replies.

Let me remind you what you said; ‘Isn’t it really just that you can’t be arsed now you have met your partner?’ Can you really not see how that is beyond fucking insulting? Because if you can’t, then I don’t think there is enough time in the day to explain it to you.

Same here.

What baffles me is why people care that some people choose not to waste their time opening the door to random callers or answering the phone to cold callers. what baffles me even more is that those that do open the door or phone to randoms see themselves as somehow better adjusted, "normal", cool or living their best life or something when clearly they're not. And then on this thread alone the former group has been labelled as always posting on MN by someone posting on MN instead of living the great life they imply they have. Weird.

Wow. Each to their own, and it isn't incumbent on anyone to provide emotional support to a stranger, but five minutes chatting to an elderly person at the bus-stop who is probably lonely and doesn't have anyone in their life to chat to that day, isn't exactly burdensome. Why so much anger about it?

And the message you are sending to your toddler is that all strangers are annoying and should be avoided. It's your decision but have you thought that they might need to ask a stranger on the bus to help them one day if they are ill or lost. But I suppose that would be fine the other way around?

I get that it's very annoying opening the front door to random strangers disturbing your down time, and people trying to sell stuff, but one day the person at your door might be trying to tell you your chimney is on fire, which is what happened to us!

There is a lot of anxiety about:

https://www.mentalhealth.org.uk/about-us/news/new-research-reveals-anxiety-gripping-uk-many-people-struggle-cope

https://championhealth.co.uk/insights/anxiety-statistics/#:~:text=In%20any%20given%20week%20in,access%20treatment%20(Mental%20Health%20Foundation)

And it can be hard to access treatment.

Yes I know that, thanks. It’s not me who seems to be struggling with the concept, or who thinks that MN is ‘overpopulated with people who pathologise their own social discomfort, mislabel it as ‘introversion’ and view this as a reason to contract their lives to situations that don’t cause them discomfort’ instead of thinking that maybe I don’t know what is going on in the medical records of complete strangers.

@Whothefuckdoesthat

Yeah, that’s it. You’ve caught them all out with your razor sharp observation. They’re all just lazy fuckers who stopped bothering with other people once they’d got themselves a man. Not me though. I managed to avoid first date nerves by catching him in a big net 🙄

I am not sure what your point is and why you are being aggressive? I find it bizarre and inconsistent that people can apparently manage the extreme high stress of dating but can’t cope with a bit of social chit chat? I genuinely don’t understand this. Dating is one of the most high stress, anxiety unfriendly things you can do but these people who never leave their spouses have all managed it at one point.

I do have some anxieties. I grew up with a DM who was always cautious about answering the front door and the phone. She didn't like us talking to strangers, etc.

I'm from one of the biggest and busiest cities in the world, and am very streetwise. I don't live there anymore. I live in a small village in, but that sense of self preservation is in my bones.

I do answer my font door and mobile

Introversion, whether in its actual meaning or the way in which it’s widely misused on here, is certainly not anything that needs to be ‘disclosed’ to someone within two minutes of meeting a stranger, and neither are actual MH conditions!

Badging themselves “introvert” because they are too set in their ways to try to make conversation with new people etc I’ve referred to myself as an introvert on here, so I’ll bite.

Yes, it could just be social discomfort. Or, having spoken to you for two minutes, they may have quickly deduced that you don’t have much of an understanding of mental health conditions and they don’t feel like being judged, or you aren’t the sort of person who they feel like disclosing their diagnosed medical conditions to, so it’s simply easier to describe themselves as introverted. Or they could be an introvert and have diagnosed medical conditions. Like me. Does that explain it?

I think the last 4 years since covid, the crazy lockdowns/tier system, threats of new variants every few months or so, mainstream medias irresponsible reporting, pointless wars, threats of more wars, appalling genocide, political unrest, general unrest around the world, cost of living crisis, unfair wealth distribution, housing shortages, I could go on….. all this collectively in a short space of time has probably made already anxious people even more anxious. It’s not exactly been smooth sailing.

Anxiety manifests itself in different ways.

oh dear 😂

Talking about drama llama attention seekers 😂

If you hate socialising how did you meet your partner? Initiating a relationship is far more demanding and stressful than beginning a friendship. How is it that all these people have put themselves through the white knuckle ride of a first date but can’t bring themselves to attend a work social once a year?

Isnt it really just that you can’t be arsed now you have met your partner?

Yeah, that’s it. You’ve caught them all out with your razor sharp observation. They’re all just lazy fuckers who stopped bothering with other people once they’d got themselves a man. Not me though. I managed to avoid first date nerves by catching him in a big net 🙄