To be surprised there are a lot more very anxious/fearful people out there than I thought?

@Ormally

That's the thing with having to work at comfort zones, manners appropriate to the means (like Whatsapp or similar) and being quite self-aware at the same time whether you want to be or not. Worth doing, but I think I see why some things drain energy and worry away at me as well.

Totally. Also the COVID era brought in loads of new etiquette around how to conduct yourself on various forms of electronic communication which I find to be an absolute minefield.

Certain behaviours are deemed acceptable on email but not Teams or vice versa and people put loads of rules in place about “appropriate” management of these channels. Most of which honestly sound arbitrary and a bit crazy to me.

For example I got called out recently by a colleague for not managing my Teams status appropriately (because my status was showing as “available” but I didn’t pick up). It never occurred to me that this is something which could cause upset. It’s just another thing to worry about and it’s very draining. Personally I find face to face social interaction much easier to manage than this endless digital minefield because you can read people’s faces and voices. But obviously everyone is different and this probably doesn’t suit a ND person.

@Thepeopleversuswork agree with that! And then I wonder whether I can 'only' do 1:1 kind of interactions and look like a right oddball whenever there's more than 2 or 3 together for more than 10 minutes - in fact, I'm sure I must do, and I can't shake that self-evaluation, so it probably becomes self-fulfilling in any case. Even though I am ok on emails, I also absolutely hate Whatsapp and Whatsapp groups, for example - and yet I also know well, that leads to being left behind, and cutting out a lot of the spontaneous socialising chances.

That's the thing with having to work at comfort zones, manners appropriate to the means (like Whatsapp or similar) and being quite self-aware at the same time whether you want to be or not. Worth doing, but I think I see why some things drain energy and worry away at me as well.

@Ormally

Thank you I really appreciate that answer.

This is the exact opposite of how I feel. I find group socialising easy but dating unbearably stressful so I have really struggled to understand this for years.

I remember when I was younger and single I used to be flummoxed by the numbers of shy and anxious people I met who were in long term relationships. It made me feel like something was wrong with me because I was superficially “confident” but apparently unable to attract a mate yet all these shrinking wallflowers could handle it so it must be me.

When I come on here and read posts from people with apparently happy marriages but who break out in hives at the prospect of going out to the pub once a year it still seems bizarre to me because in my brain dating is a far more anxiety inducing thing to do. But then I don’t bat an eyelid at walking into a crowded party. Just rams home how different people are.

I’m still struggling with the idea that normal socialising can be more daunting than dating? Can you explain this to me because it’s just not computing for me.

OK, it's been a few years since doing any dating with the possibility of being in a romantic relationship, and perhaps how attractive etc. you feel (on the conventional scale) also has a lot to do with it, but I'd say this: you have a bad date, you don't have to see each other again. No bother. You may have 3 promising dates and then date 4, something you can't get past comes up, and you don't want to go any further. It's disappointing but this person should slide out of your headspace.

The works do, or socialising in a group or club or whatever, where you feel happy and relaxed when 3 of them are there, but then Tina's friend comes sometimes and the vibe really changes- you will be in that position again, and the way people interact with you, as well as vice-versa, does matter to you. Might get to you even if you want to try to override that sense of let down. You will have been through 'that scenario' and the way that you feel can already be kind of primed in your mind.

I think that you should just accept that you don't have an understanding of the complex human mind and human behaviour, and leave it at that. It wouldn't really be possible to answer your questions on a forum such as this, but if you google I am sure you will become better informed.

In my case, I'm on the spectrum, so I don't know how to judge whether or not people like me and want to be friends, or if they think I'm a big weirdo and are just being polite.
Another problem I have is an excess of empathy. When I'm around a lot of people I am picking up on their emotions and it is overwhelming. Yet at the same time, I cannot work out how they feel about me. I'm also super sensitive to sensory input, such as a lot of sound and a lot of movement. It makes parties a nightmare. I have literally become physically ill from it.

Otoh, in the past I found it easy to tell when a man liked me. The sensory issues also don't come into play when I am one on one with somebody.
Now I can't tell if men like me or not, but as I have lost interest in dating, I'm okay with just bowing out.

I'm probably not average for an anxious person due to being neurodivergent, but I'm pretty sure we all have reasons why one situation may be more daunting than another.

I think a lot of people do find dating anxiety provoking, so you have lots of company there.

I'm not that poster but everyone is wired individually, though - and even the diagnosis of anxiety will affect people differently. Trauma effects people differently.

And humans can be very contradicting.

I am very confident and hold seminars, host large events, in my role I do lots of public speaking, I interact with many different people with ease.

But I was/am diagnosed with agoraphobia (as well as c-PTSD due to childhood abuse and then a violent attack in my teens).

I'm 90% recovered from both but some core fears are now part of me.

For example, I'll be happy next month to get on a plane and speak at a conference, as I'm going with a colleague - I'd never be able to do this alone though, the anxiety would make me physically ill.

It makes no sense on paper! I can speak publicly but I can't drive to a place I haven't been to before my myself. Parking gives me horrible anxiety. I force myself, but it's tough and draining.

I'd rather speak in front of any amount of people than drive to the next town for something.

Some things I'm comfortable with, certain things I'm not.

@XChrome

Thank you that is really helpful. I understand that you can’t control the reactions. I’m still struggling with the idea that normal socialising can be more daunting than dating? Can you explain this to me because it’s just not computing for me.

I promise I am not being goady as a PP thinks. I am wondering if I am wired differently to other people because I found dating so terrifying I didn’t do it for years.

I have terrible anxiety, cPTSD, depression. I see danger everywhere. I'm scared. I'm anxious. I have little faith and trust in people. I fully expect everybody to let me down or betray me or hurt me. I believe if my front door is unlocked someone will walk in and hurt me or DS. If I don't protect myself and my child someone will hurt us. That's not my fault and I can't fix it.

I'm sorry that the fact I've been broken by the way that I've been treated my whole life is affecting your sense of "community". Its not a choice. It's a symptom that a person has been treated badly by the world around them.

You're assuming that if one has anxiety, it is at the same level in all kinds of interactions. It doesn't work that way.
I used to have low anxiety about dating and higher anxiety about socializing.
Now I have high anxiety about both.
You can't control the strength of your reaction to various stimuli, and the reactions can vary by type of stimulus and the particular circumstances around each one. For example, dating in a small town might feel safer than in a big city.

Maybe you should do some reading about anxiety to help you understand it better?

@godmum56

If most people find these things a pain in the arse, I wonder why they exist?

I can’t answer that: I didn’t invent them. I think a certain amount of social cohesion at work is a good thing and I guess they are a misguided attempt to foster that and to reward staff bla bla bla.

I think for the most part (certainly in large companies) they are usually overblown and over expensive exercises in forced fun but based on good intentions.

But while I get why people find them a PITA (I do generally) I think the extreme fear, anxiety and resentment they seem to engender is overdone and sometimes a bit performative and childish.

Unless your anxiety is so severe you can’t leave the house (in which case you shouldn’t be working at all), it costs nothing to turn up, have a couple of drinks and bugger off with good grace without turning it into an undiagnosed phobia.

If most people find these things a pain in the arse, I wonder why they exist?

Nope. I had my partner long before I started work and I didn't go hunting.

YABU phrasing the thread title as you did, it makes it sound like anxiety is a weakness, when in fact it's a natural response to horrible behaviour.

I'm sure you didn't mean it to sound like that and also thank you for starting the thread because it will hopefully provoke positive discussion.

Living in a high crime area, as I do and so many of us do, does evil things to your mental health.

You have to be constantly on your guard.

It drags you down, no matter how positive and sunny your outlook may once have been.

@godmum56

Thats understandable I largely find them tedious too.

But presenting these things as insurmountable due the anxiety or “being an introvert” for me falls into this bucket of medicalising normal human discomfort.

Most people find this sort of thing a pain in the arse, some more than others. Very few people love it. Most people do as much as they can cope with and leave politely without turning it into an anxiety attack.

And that’s fine, it’s an honest answer. You did what was required when you wanted to find a partner and once you got that, you stopped, as you don’t like it or see no value to you in it. Fair enough.

Haven't read the full thread but wrt the OP, lots of people tend to post on here when seeking help or advice including with anxiety.

With PTSD specifically, I'm glad you got good therapy OP. Unfortunately in much of the country, provision of any public service including effective therapy is poor and many people lack access or have very long waits for help. I'm not an expert but I understand that the longer PTSD is untreated the harder it is to treat?

its not impossible, I just disliked it.

I never went to the works do because I find them a pain in the arse.

Thanks for raising. The truth is that social and news media organisations derive revenues from reader / user engagement. Fear and conflict drive engagement and therefore revenue. The side effect is that people are terrified - often uncessarily...

@Whothefuckdoesthat

OK whatever. I have apologised and apparently that wasn’t sincere enough. My apology still stands but I’m not going to prostrate myself before you to give you a more sincere apology because you are apparently hell bent on seeing this as hostile and I can’t change this.

But you still have not answered my question other than “because mental health”.

“Because mental health” answers some questions about people’s baseline anxiety. It doesn’t explain why it’s apparently easy to maintain an intimate relationship but impossible to do a bit of casual socialising.

This.

Ypu would be surprised by how many people have actually been a victim or witness to a serious crime or a terrible accident. Sometimes multiple. Some of us live in dangerous areas or have dangerous family members but don’t fool yourself - nowhere is really safe. The sense of safety and trust we have to imagine around us to go about our daily lives is largely an illusion.

@Thepeopleversuswork

I think we’re de-railing the thread slightly so I’ll reply now, let you have the last word if you really feel you need it and then leave it there.

You definitely were rude, on several occasions, and you definitely didn’t apologise. Telling someone that you’re sorry if they feel a certain way isn’t an apology and, as such, there was nothing for me to accept or not. But I don’t want or need you to do anything more. You’d be being disingenuous and I’m not so sensitive that I need to demand an apology from a complete stranger on the internet. We won’t even remember each other’s usernames in a couple of days.

I still find it a bit fishy that people who are capable of putting themselves out there enough to do enough dating to find a mate apparently can’t cope with a bit of light and occasional social activity You can find it as fishy as you like. Nobody appointed you Chief of the Spanish Inquisition.

It suggests to me one of several scenarios are playing out: Go on then Poirot, what’s your theory? 😂

a) that the act of making friends is more burdensome or demanding than the act of building a new intimate relationship (which I really struggle with because I find dating FAR more stressful as do most people). OR: b) that something has happened in the interim between meeting the spouse and the present day which has put them off socialising. OR: c) that such people put a higher premium on being in a relationship than they do in friendship and, having moved heaven and earth to find a mate and secured the spouse they inwardly say “my work is done” and stop bothering. Which I suspect applies most of the time.
I am trying to understand which of these scenarios is closest to the truth and your answers aren’t shedding much light on this. No, that would be because I purposely haven’t given you any answers. Partly because I can only speak for myself (where none of your scenarios apply) and I think you’ll latch onto anything I say and use it to denigrate other people, and partly because you’re under the impression that it can only be a, b or c, rather than a combination, all of them or none of them. If I believed that you were asking in good faith, I’d give you my experience, but I don’t. I think you’re just waiting to say ‘Ha! I don’t believe you! I’ve caught you out, this mental health stuff is all just a ruse to get time off work’.

Which is fine but then don’t be surprised if people find the claim that all these married people who have at some point dated are now far too anxious to socialise a bit dubious I’m not worried about that. I think that people would only think that if they were a) a bit thick or b) had absolutely no understanding of mh conditions at all and felt that people should just pull their socks up and get on with it. Either way, it’s not an opinion that would trouble me.

@WitchyBits How did you meet your DH though? There must have been a point in your life when you felt able to socialise with people to get to the point of building an intimate relationship.

This is what I don’t understand…

I maintain friendships and I've been with my DH for 22 years. But my circle is small, very very small and I only fill my life with people I trust. I do still go out but sparingly and only when necessary. Today I went to my nephews sorts day out of necessity as him mum had to stay in work. I hated every second of it and didn't talk to anybody but I still stood and cheered him on. Some days I feeli can take on the world, others, I can't even leave my bedroom. It is what it is . I've spent most of my adult life in therapy and achieved a degree and a masters despite leaving school with zero GCSEs. I do push myself but within my own limits for most of the time and occasionally I challenge myself to step up and do something that terrifies me.