To think it's ok to holiday the summer before 11+?

ElevenPlusOrHoliday · 2024-07-01T12:04:25+00:00

DS is due to take the 11+ the second week of September. DH has been working through prep books with him since last autumn, but they still have quite a bit to get through. They haven't finished the books and still need to take practice tests. Usually, over the summer holiday, we visit my parents in the states for a week. DS absolutely adores his grandparents and looks forward to the trip all year. DH thinks we should cancel this year to concentrate on 11+ instead. DS will be heartbroken. It's also true that the secondary school we think likely will best fit DS is a nearby grammar school that is usually oversubscribed, so to get in, he would need to do reasonably well on the 11+. And, the nearby non-grammar school seems like it really, really would not suit him well. I don't know what to do. DH thinks that if I take DS on holiday, I might be ruining his future. I understand, but also think that 1.5 weeks of lost study shouldn't be that critical. YABU = Skip holiday this year, 11+ is more important YANBU = Take DS on holiday

TorroFerney · 15/10/2024 08:50

ElevenPlusOrHoliday · 14/10/2024 14:35

Just to update... In the end, we went on holiday. DS did a small amount of 11+ study each day, just to stay in practice, and he passed.

What good news, this was our model a few years ago and it worked.

whatafaf · 14/10/2024 21:09

Congratulations to your DS and hope you all enjoyed your holiday.

Original poster

ElevenPlusOrHoliday · 14/10/2024 14:35

Just to update... In the end, we went on holiday. DS did a small amount of 11+ study each day, just to stay in practice, and he passed.

OP posts:

AngryBird6122 · 03/07/2024 09:32

WestminsterCrimes · 01/07/2024 15:51

People saying 'if he needs this much prep he won't cope at a grammar' clearly don't live in a grammar area! The fact that there are a significant number of incredibly hard working families who prep to insane levels has upped the standard for everyone. You now need to have covered all of the Y6 syllabus in Y5 and you need to be fast and accurate too. In our area the Asian families generally get about 4 years ahead in maths and this is a constant source of amazement to me. I literally don't know how they do it.

I would still take the holiday but I'd be doing 2 hours a day while there. I think more than 2 hours starts to get detrimental but maybe that's why my child isn't one of the 4 years ahead bunch.

@WestminsterCrimes oh yes, clearly!

(lives in the grammar hotspot of the uk, two kids in grammar, neither of them did 2 hours a day. Yes they prepped, yes I allowed them to have a couple of weeks off COMPLETELY in the summer to play and chill and just forget about it because it's not the bee all, and no, I wouldn't have pushed them. Poor kids)

Can't believe people saying have the holiday but do some every day while there. Why not just do some the rest of the summer holidays but let him have a complete break for that time? I just don't get it. He will be burnt out come the day of the test - we stopped any study whatsoever the week or so before the test so mine were happy and relaxed, not tired and stressed. But... each to their own

AngryBird6122 · 03/07/2024 09:27

Bibbetybobbity · 01/07/2024 15:57

@AngryBird6122 if a kid was training for an elite sport, 2 hours a day for a set period of time probably wouldn’t be that outrageous (albeit in my sports analogy the kid would need rest days). The 11+ is a hard exam, it does require intensive prep, that’s just the reality for most. I find it odd how we’re collectively so outraged at the 11+ prep but wouldn’t be getting so riled if it was a sports selection.

Oh- and the competitive non-revisors (not a word!) make me laugh.

OP I’d compromise, as others have said, and take the books, agree an amount beforehand and use the journey time to balance out any days that aren’t really possible. 3 decent sessions over a week would really keep your ds ticking over, so it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. And good luck, it’s a massive slog, but worth it in my opinion.

I don't think that's comparable. Does the child enjoy the sport? Do they want to do two hours a day?

Does the OPs child want this that badly? Do they want to/enjoy the two hours a day of academic study?

thisishowitisyousee · 01/07/2024 18:41

Absolutely ridiculous situation.

CeciliaMars · 01/07/2024 18:22

I am an 11+ tutor. There is a middle ground! Take some practice books with you and do 30 mins a day, sign up to an online 11+ subscriptions service, and if he has a tutor, see if they'll offer online lessons for that couple of weeks!

Apolloneuro · 01/07/2024 18:15

Bibbetybobbity · 01/07/2024 15:57

@AngryBird6122 if a kid was training for an elite sport, 2 hours a day for a set period of time probably wouldn’t be that outrageous (albeit in my sports analogy the kid would need rest days). The 11+ is a hard exam, it does require intensive prep, that’s just the reality for most. I find it odd how we’re collectively so outraged at the 11+ prep but wouldn’t be getting so riled if it was a sports selection.

Oh- and the competitive non-revisors (not a word!) make me laugh.

OP I’d compromise, as others have said, and take the books, agree an amount beforehand and use the journey time to balance out any days that aren’t really possible. 3 decent sessions over a week would really keep your ds ticking over, so it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. And good luck, it’s a massive slog, but worth it in my opinion.

I disagree. I don’t think people would agree that a child missed a holiday to continue training in a sport.

dangermouseisace · 01/07/2024 18:07

It sounds like your son has done enough. If your kid is bright enough they do not need all that pressure, and actually, maybe it is counterproductive? They’ve got to want to succeed for themselves, not feel punished and pushed by their parents.
I say this as someone who is poor so was not bothered about too much practicing, definitely no tutoring. And my kids all got into oversubscribed grammars. Let him have fun!

converseandjeans · 01/07/2024 17:44

This is bonkers. I went to grammar school in the 80s and nobody did any preparation. The only ones who probably did were the private school kids who got places & the majority found it hard to keep up.

What on earth will DH be like when it's GCSE?

sugarapplelane · 01/07/2024 17:43

x2boys · 01/07/2024 15:31

Hardly ,there are 163 Grammar schools in England despite what mumsnet would have you belive ,the vast majority of Kids are educated in Comprehensive s because Grammar don't exist in most LEA,s and haven't done in Decades.

Show quote history

You had better believe it.
certain families will make their kids take the 11 + in several areas and will move if the kid passes or make the kids travel several hours a day.
I have seen messages from parents, who have only just moved to this country, saying that their kid has to go to a grammar school as friends say it is the only type of school worth going to.

RubyFlint · 01/07/2024 17:42

He will benefit from recharging and refreshing during a holiday.

ConsuelaHammock · 01/07/2024 17:32

Go on holiday! If he doesn’t know it now another week won’t make much difference. Why do you think the non grammar school wouldn’t suit him?

Beekeepingmum · 01/07/2024 17:29

Bibbetybobbity · 01/07/2024 15:57

@AngryBird6122 if a kid was training for an elite sport, 2 hours a day for a set period of time probably wouldn’t be that outrageous (albeit in my sports analogy the kid would need rest days). The 11+ is a hard exam, it does require intensive prep, that’s just the reality for most. I find it odd how we’re collectively so outraged at the 11+ prep but wouldn’t be getting so riled if it was a sports selection.

Oh- and the competitive non-revisors (not a word!) make me laugh.

OP I’d compromise, as others have said, and take the books, agree an amount beforehand and use the journey time to balance out any days that aren’t really possible. 3 decent sessions over a week would really keep your ds ticking over, so it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. And good luck, it’s a massive slog, but worth it in my opinion.

I suppose it depends if the child enjoys it. If someone was making their child train for an elite sport at the expense of holidays and it wasn't the child's dream then we might well be commenting that this isn't right, living through the child etc. If the child enjoys the academic prep than great if not then let them have a break.

Original poster

ElevenPlusOrHoliday · 01/07/2024 17:28

Thanks all. I agree that a good plan is to take the books with us and do some revision while away. DH argues that the revision done while on holiday won't be as good as revision at home, which is probably true, but I'd hope it would be good enough. (To make matters more difficult, DH is thinking about not going this year, so it would be on me to supervise revision.)

Part of the problem is that DS hasn't been being "hothoused". DH and DS haven't been doing very much revision, so DH feels they are behind and need the holiday to catch up. (And from some people's comments, it does seem they are behind.) On the other hand, I haven't heard any particular plan from DH about how exactly they would use the time to catch up.

In some ways I agree that if DS needs lots of coaching then maybe a grammar school isn't right for him. Until a year ago or so, I assumed he wouldn't even bother taking the 11+. But one of his teachers actually said he thought the nearest grammar school would be a good fit and we should sign him up for the 11+, so that's how it came about.

I'm not against comprehensive schools, it's just that the one nearest us currently has a pretty bad reputation. DS has some SEN and I've heard they aren't very good for that. I assumed we'd just have to make do with it anyway, but then this teacher made us think maybe not.

Distance is a factor because DS doesn't travel very well. He gets bad motion sickness, and I think taking the bus or even driving to some of the further away schools every day would probably cancel out any gains made by the school being better than the closer one. (And is also why he won't be studying 11+ on the flight 😂)

OP posts:

Marblessolveeverything · 01/07/2024 16:56

I find the UK approach to education to be so counterproductive. And I say that as a parent of two children who would have absolutely thrived in the environment - they both are very exam focused and STEN (standardised testing) in the top 1% of Ireland.

The problem is if they had been in that environment they would have not learnt how to "learn", to fail, to struggle, to study other non examinable subjects.

These are such important life skills. I really would like to dig into the data of these kids 10, 20 years later because I would guess they don't all become super achievers but rather one dimensional, disillusioned young people with no idea what they want to study.

LinseedCrackers · 01/07/2024 16:21

This thread is eye-opening about parental attitudes to education. Suppose you all calmed the fuck down, didn't have your children tutored, and accepted that many of your children are intellectually ordinary without intensive hothousing, and are best suited to a school that caters to the level that they can achieve unaided?

Porcuine20 · 01/07/2024 16:15

My DS is also preparing for the 11+ so I understand the pressure - the difference between the grammar and non-grammar here is huge in terms of subjects, extra-curricular, results etc so I’d really love him to get in. He will definitely be having a good week off (and weekends off) over the summer though, and lots of treats. I think you should go on holiday, but draw up a revision plan around it to make sure you cover what you need to. Maybe you could take some workbooks for the plane (it’ll be a long boring flight anyway) if he’s up for that - or failing that, a good book to read. I’d love for my DS not to have to work over the summer and feel awful for making him do it - (and its going to be hard going for me too) but the truth is that getting in is so competitive, there are thousands of kids revising like crazy all summer and he’s up against them. I hope you can have a lovely holiday.

HandsDown84 · 01/07/2024 16:06

Your DH has his priorities wrong. Another one saying if a single week is pass or fail he shouldn't be going to the grammar.

OMGitsnotgood · 01/07/2024 16:06

If that week doing no or less work will make the difference between passing and failing, then I'd say grammar wouldn't be the right school for him, given that he has been working towards it for a year.
One paper a day won't disrupt his holiday too much if you need to compromise or are concerned about him forgetting how to do things.
We live in a selective area so do understand the prep required and have seen the fall out of heavily tutored children scraping in and struggling after.

whatafaf · 01/07/2024 16:06

We weren't planning one for financial reasons but got a last minute deal in August in a caravan in UK. DS was so happy to get away. We did very little in the holidays and made sure in the couple of weeks before to do no prep just reading as he would do in term time. He seemed very fresh and rested when he went for his test. His friend's dad was same as your DH not wanting a holiday because of the exam. I think their son was worn down by the time the 11+ came around. He didn't pass. They need a break and I think tutors/ teachers would agree? If he really has to do something while away then a ten minute test every day/ reading should be enough by then.

Bibbetybobbity · 01/07/2024 15:57

@AngryBird6122 if a kid was training for an elite sport, 2 hours a day for a set period of time probably wouldn’t be that outrageous (albeit in my sports analogy the kid would need rest days). The 11+ is a hard exam, it does require intensive prep, that’s just the reality for most. I find it odd how we’re collectively so outraged at the 11+ prep but wouldn’t be getting so riled if it was a sports selection.

Oh- and the competitive non-revisors (not a word!) make me laugh.

OP I’d compromise, as others have said, and take the books, agree an amount beforehand and use the journey time to balance out any days that aren’t really possible. 3 decent sessions over a week would really keep your ds ticking over, so it doesn’t have to be all or nothing. And good luck, it’s a massive slog, but worth it in my opinion.

Echobelly · 01/07/2024 15:56

This sounds like waaaay to much pressure for 11+. And as others have said, if he needs that much intervention than maybe grammar isn't for him anyway. And if he doesn't need it, then he should have his holiday. No way should a (really quite short) holiday be canceled for this.

I sat entry for a grammar at that age and though I hardly worked that intensively I do remember bringing a practice book on holiday beforehand and using it a few times while away.

Apolloneuro · 01/07/2024 15:54

Thatsallfolkshaha · 01/07/2024 15:25

Hot housing is disgusting. It's unfair on the child being bullied by their parents and it's unfair on the children with natural aptitude who should rightfully take that place. It's verging on abuse to deny a child a break from education to just be a child for a few weeks because you feel it will give you as parents kudos to have a grammar school child.

Thank you for saying what I was thinking. I do think that putting intense pressure on a child is abusive.

WestminsterCrimes · 01/07/2024 15:51

People saying 'if he needs this much prep he won't cope at a grammar' clearly don't live in a grammar area! The fact that there are a significant number of incredibly hard working families who prep to insane levels has upped the standard for everyone. You now need to have covered all of the Y6 syllabus in Y5 and you need to be fast and accurate too. In our area the Asian families generally get about 4 years ahead in maths and this is a constant source of amazement to me. I literally don't know how they do it.

I would still take the holiday but I'd be doing 2 hours a day while there. I think more than 2 hours starts to get detrimental but maybe that's why my child isn't one of the 4 years ahead bunch.