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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that asking people if they have kids is an innocent question

211 replies

SiberFox · 30/06/2024 15:10

Two of my best friends are childless not by choice and finding it hard, and I’m learning to navigate that as a friend with a baby. Blogs, podcasts and forums for the childless have been really helpful for me to better understand how they might be feeling/what not to say etc, as well as my personal experience of recurrent miscarriage. I am on board with most advice I’ve seen so far.

However, something that I’ve seen frequently on there is the condemnation of the “do you have children?” question - it keeps bugging me. I understand where it comes from - when you’re grieving, it must be triggering, uncomfortable, painful to be reminded of that/to try and find an adequate answer. But the conclusion that it should therefore be banned as a “lazy”, “insensitive”, “triggering” question just seems like an overreaction? It’s not like asking a stranger how many kids they’ve got which would be stupid and insensitive as an assumption, it’s just establishing a basic fact about the person. I’ve seen many people say that it’s completely not interesting/irrelevant as you get to know the person, but how is it irrelevant? It’s literally one of the major things to know about someone.

I’m finding the “Where do you come from” question uncomfortable at the moment because my country is screwing up politically on the global arena but it doesn’t make me think that we should ban the question. Anything can be triggering - asking about someone’s line of work (what if they’re unemployed), etc etc, where do we draw the line?

AIBU that there is nothing wrong with the question per se? Or am I lacking empathy here?

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Fecked · 07/07/2024 11:21

Rycbar · 30/06/2024 15:37

It’s a hard one. I can see both sides. I can see how someone would see it as a completely innocent question, trying to get the I know someone. However, having struggled to get pregnant and currently miscarrying my first pregnancy being asked a question like that is absolutely soul crushing. Im a teacher and a parent made a completely innocent joke along the lines of ‘you next’ the other day (I got married last summer so I can see the logic) and she had no idea I was currently waiting for my body to realise my baby had died. However she didn’t need to say that at all and I had to rush away because I could barely contain the tears.

I’m so sorry for your loss. Sending you kind wishes.

KimberleyClark · 07/07/2024 11:13

@PaperSheet It’s such a relief when you’re obviously past childbearing age! I did look about 45 when I was 50 and I still got the unhelpful anecdotes about Auntie Mary who thought she was menopausal and it turned out she was pregnant.

PaperSheet · 07/07/2024 11:08

One issue with "it didn't work out for me" is that it won't always work depending on your age.
I'm 43 but look younger (not much, but most people say 37-40). So when you say "it didn't work out for me" you'd be surprised by the amount of people that start volunteering their stories of "oh my cousin thought she couldn't have kids but would you believe it!! She had a surprise at 45 then ANOTHER at 47!!! So never say never! You never know! It might still happen!!"
Or even people that say "have you tried IVF? My best friends sister couldn't have kids but then had twins with IVF!"
So "it didn't work out for me" doesn't always work to end the conversation. I imagine it will work better once I clearly look past the age to have any real "hope" of a pregnancy. So maybe 50+.

EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon · 07/07/2024 11:06

MagpiePi · 07/07/2024 10:45

The 'It didn't work out for me' is for people who wanted children but couldn't have them. If you never wanted children then I agree with you that you should just say so.

I think what I am trying to get across is, asking about children is just one part of your life that a stranger might ask about, along with your work, where you live or where you are from, whether you have pets. Any of these could be a upsetting for you; you've just unexpectedly been made redundant, you've escaped an abusive relationship, your cat has just been run over, but the person asking doesn't know this. Why should asking about children be singled out as taboo?

The VAST MAJORITY of people would recognise that you don't want to elaborate on a particular topic depending on your initial response and would have the good manners to not probe further. If they do then you are perfectly entitled to say 'fuck off, it's none of your business' but as a first response it is just rude.

Edited

Not everyone would ask the other questions either, though. Depending on the overall vibe of a conversation, it can feel fine to ask things like that, or it can feel intrusive. And personally I think whether someone has kids is much more of a potentially loaded question than where they are from or whether they have any pets, for example. It's not something I ask people.

MagpiePi · 07/07/2024 10:45

EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon · 06/07/2024 11:36

If you are asked why you don’t have children and you say something like ‘it just didn’t work out for me’ then the vast majority of people are going to recognise that you don’t want to discuss it further and will respect that. There is no need to go in all guns blazing at the first mention of the subject.

There's a difference between not going in all guns blazing, and fudging around the issue with a vague comment like ‘it just didn’t work out for me’ to make other people more comfortable. Personally, if people ask, I simply tell them the truth: I have never wanted children. I say it perfectly politely and non-aggressively, so if that makes them feel uncomfortable then it's on them to broaden their mindsets imho. I'm not willing to use any platitudes about things 'not working out' when that's not the truth of the matter.

The 'It didn't work out for me' is for people who wanted children but couldn't have them. If you never wanted children then I agree with you that you should just say so.

I think what I am trying to get across is, asking about children is just one part of your life that a stranger might ask about, along with your work, where you live or where you are from, whether you have pets. Any of these could be a upsetting for you; you've just unexpectedly been made redundant, you've escaped an abusive relationship, your cat has just been run over, but the person asking doesn't know this. Why should asking about children be singled out as taboo?

The VAST MAJORITY of people would recognise that you don't want to elaborate on a particular topic depending on your initial response and would have the good manners to not probe further. If they do then you are perfectly entitled to say 'fuck off, it's none of your business' but as a first response it is just rude.

Catsmere · 06/07/2024 12:14

If you are asked why you don’t have children

To reiterate: it's none of their fucking business. How dare someone ask such a question of a stranger? It's not asked innocently. It's an interrogation. Last time it happened to me was only a couple of months ago. Total stranger, a neighbour's daughter I"d met once, for five minutes, quizzing me about why I wasn't interested in minding her kid.

EverythingYouDoIsaBalloon · 06/07/2024 11:36

If you are asked why you don’t have children and you say something like ‘it just didn’t work out for me’ then the vast majority of people are going to recognise that you don’t want to discuss it further and will respect that. There is no need to go in all guns blazing at the first mention of the subject.

There's a difference between not going in all guns blazing, and fudging around the issue with a vague comment like ‘it just didn’t work out for me’ to make other people more comfortable. Personally, if people ask, I simply tell them the truth: I have never wanted children. I say it perfectly politely and non-aggressively, so if that makes them feel uncomfortable then it's on them to broaden their mindsets imho. I'm not willing to use any platitudes about things 'not working out' when that's not the truth of the matter.

daliesque · 06/07/2024 11:23

If you want to come across as rude and aggressive and say ‘fuck off, none of your business’ to what was probably an innocent question from someone who is interested in you, then that’s up to you.

If the extent of someone's interest in me is my reproductive status then they are not someone I'm interested in getting to know, so fuck off is a perfect response.

KimberleyClark · 06/07/2024 09:26

MagpiePi · 06/07/2024 08:17

Yes I have read everything.

I think that childlessness has become some kind of holy cow that is not allowed to be discussed, coupled with the trend for thinking that negative thoughts or emotions are hugely mentally damaging and must not be experienced under any circumstances, but it is up to everyone else to not bring up any topic that might upset you.
So you get situations where a pregnant woman is not allowed to mention or be happy about her pregnancy because another woman does not have children.

If you are asked why you don’t have children and you say something like ‘it just didn’t work out for me’ then the vast majority of people are going to recognise that you don’t want to discuss it further and will respect that. There is no need to go in all guns blazing at the first mention of the subject.

Why do you think people are entitled to know that you wanted children and couldn’t have them?

Why isn’t a completely factual answer to the question acceptable?

And some parents get upset if someone says “no, I didn’t want them”- they feel their choice to have them is being attacked, when it isn’t.

MagpiePi · 06/07/2024 08:17

EmpressaurusDeiGatti · 05/07/2024 09:05

Have you RTFT, @MagpiePi? I think it’s a relevant question.

Yes I have read everything.

I think that childlessness has become some kind of holy cow that is not allowed to be discussed, coupled with the trend for thinking that negative thoughts or emotions are hugely mentally damaging and must not be experienced under any circumstances, but it is up to everyone else to not bring up any topic that might upset you.
So you get situations where a pregnant woman is not allowed to mention or be happy about her pregnancy because another woman does not have children.

If you are asked why you don’t have children and you say something like ‘it just didn’t work out for me’ then the vast majority of people are going to recognise that you don’t want to discuss it further and will respect that. There is no need to go in all guns blazing at the first mention of the subject.

TunnocksOrDeath · 05/07/2024 18:14

I think it's one of those questions where unless you're a complete arse, you need to try to find a response to their (yes/no) answer that won't kill the conversation stone dead, or upset/offend anyone, and that is REALLY difficult to do if you don't know their circumstances; but if you knew their circumstances, you wouldn't need to ask anyway.

ASandwichNamedKevin · 05/07/2024 11:05

DoneAdulting · 05/07/2024 08:50

I was asked this in an interview yesterday!

What should I have said? I told the truth that I have a DS11 but really hated that they asked me.

Incidentally I have been offered the job so it hasn't affected the outcome but it still doesn't sit right with me.

It is awful that they asked.

I actually think your answer may have ‘helped’ your case. (An 11 year old, not at nursery, not getting sick all the time, not too dependent, fair chance she won’t have another with only one about to start high school).

Edited to add this bit for context if the employer is thinking along those lines. As opposed to someone saying they have a 5 year old and a 3 year old, they could be thinking there’s a chance of another maternity cover.

Bleurfghjj · 05/07/2024 09:12

DoneAdulting · 05/07/2024 08:50

I was asked this in an interview yesterday!

What should I have said? I told the truth that I have a DS11 but really hated that they asked me.

Incidentally I have been offered the job so it hasn't affected the outcome but it still doesn't sit right with me.

Isn’t it illegal?!

Kingsleadhat · 05/07/2024 09:11

It was a question I found intrusive and difficult especially as I'd had fertility treatment miscarriage and a stillbirth. If women have children they tend to mention it pretty early on. If you mention your kids or grandkids and the woman you're talking to doesn't pipe up with some info about her kids she probably doesn't have any.

Bleurfghjj · 05/07/2024 09:11

NuffSaidSam · 30/06/2024 15:16

I think if it's 'literally one of the major things to know about someone' and they want you to know then they'll volunteer that information. There's no need to ask.

That said, I don't think it's a terrible, awful question to ask in the context of getting to know someone as a friend. Outside of that, e.g at work or with someone you've just met it's a no go.

Lol yeah on a training call recently the man onboarding us asked me and the other woman (in a lull in the convo) if we have kids. I think he was just trying to make conversation and it was meant with innocent intentions – however I think we both smiled a bit as it was so obviously an inappropriate thing to ask and I’m certain would not have been asked of two men!

EmpressaurusDeiGatti · 05/07/2024 09:05

Catsmere · 05/07/2024 08:07

This is about more than the simple "have you children" question, it's about the ones who persist with "Why not?" - who don't take no for an answer. Which has been discussed at length through the thread.

Have you RTFT, @MagpiePi? I think it’s a relevant question.

DoneAdulting · 05/07/2024 08:50

I was asked this in an interview yesterday!

What should I have said? I told the truth that I have a DS11 but really hated that they asked me.

Incidentally I have been offered the job so it hasn't affected the outcome but it still doesn't sit right with me.

Catsmere · 05/07/2024 08:07

MagpiePi · 05/07/2024 08:03

If you want to come across as rude and aggressive and say ‘fuck off, none of your business’ to what was probably an innocent question from someone who is interested in you, then that’s up to you.

Just make sure you never ask anyone anything about themselves because you don’t know what their circumstances are, or else be prepared to be told to fuck off.

This is about more than the simple "have you children" question, it's about the ones who persist with "Why not?" - who don't take no for an answer. Which has been discussed at length through the thread.

MagpiePi · 05/07/2024 08:03

Catsmere · 02/07/2024 23:56

Yes, the answer these people need is "None of your fucking business".

If you want to come across as rude and aggressive and say ‘fuck off, none of your business’ to what was probably an innocent question from someone who is interested in you, then that’s up to you.

Just make sure you never ask anyone anything about themselves because you don’t know what their circumstances are, or else be prepared to be told to fuck off.

Catsmere · 02/07/2024 23:56

PinkArt · 02/07/2024 23:32

Why would the responsibility be on the upset person to satisfy the asker? In the cases of people on this thread who've lost a child, what witty answer should they be expected to have on hand to make that conversation easier for the person asking the, always potentially insensitive, question? If you feel the need to ask the question then it's on you to deal with a reply you might not be anticipating as an easy bit of small talk. I never had any because I never wanted any, and can't imagine that pain, but even still my answer of 'no' is enough.

Yes, the answer these people need is "None of your fucking business".

PinkArt · 02/07/2024 23:32

MagpiePi · 02/07/2024 09:37

I think it is just a topic of conversation and it is unfair to expect no-one to ever ask that question in case it upsets a stranger. What you find upsetting is going to be completely different to what someone else does.

If you find being asked about something upsetting, isn't there some responsibility on you to have replies that satisfy the asker? Why are they automatically the bad person for not knowing your circumstances or being interested in you?

Edited

Why would the responsibility be on the upset person to satisfy the asker? In the cases of people on this thread who've lost a child, what witty answer should they be expected to have on hand to make that conversation easier for the person asking the, always potentially insensitive, question? If you feel the need to ask the question then it's on you to deal with a reply you might not be anticipating as an easy bit of small talk. I never had any because I never wanted any, and can't imagine that pain, but even still my answer of 'no' is enough.

KimberleyClark · 02/07/2024 15:24

sanogo · 02/07/2024 12:48

We have a DD and once got asked if we were "going to try for a boy"

Did you find that distressing or just annoying?

EmpressaurusDeiGatti · 02/07/2024 15:18

sanogo · 02/07/2024 12:48

We have a DD and once got asked if we were "going to try for a boy"

I know someone who was the second boy in a family who were ‘trying for a girl’.

The girl came eventually, but every one of her older brothers was made to feel guilty for not being her.

What do these idiots expect you to do, put blue sheets on your bed instead of pink?

sanogo · 02/07/2024 12:48

We have a DD and once got asked if we were "going to try for a boy"

HollaHolla · 02/07/2024 12:33

I spent a long time, and a lot of money, trying to have children - unsuccessfully. I don't really mind if, in small talk, someone asks 'and do you have a family?' (Even if it is a daft question, as yes, I have siblings, parents, nieces & nephews, etc.) I just say 'no, it's just me', and move on. I don't need to tell them anything of my painful journey.
What I do mind is when people go on about it. That's when it becomes intrusive and hurtful.

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