To think that too many people are in denial that they should not drive?

But it isn't just about obvious things like dementia or cataracts is it. Aside from the fact that those things can go undetected for a long time, reflexes naturally slow down with age and it's not very easy for a GP to determine how good your driving reflexes are unless he examines you behind the wheel, which obviously they're not going to do. It's easy to scream out "ageism" when you haven't spent a considerable amount of time with ageing people but it's actually about medical facts. Many older people realise this themselves and choose to give up driving, while some remain in denial.

The not hiring at all to an over 80 driver is discrimination. If a doctor says you are ok to hire a car, that should be fine. A doctor won't sign the letter if you have dementia or a massive cataract that needs operating on!

You live in London. You can both drive. Not sure why you think anyone would think this unusual or problematic.

Try moving out of London. Maybe move to the urban sprawl around a small ex- industrial town with a partner without a driving licence. Neither of you can get to work without driving but he’s ok because you can drop him off. The supermarket is only 2 miles - so he could walk it but it makes more sense for you to just do it. Kids birthday parties - the play centre the parents booked is on that industrial estate in the edge of town. He can take the kids but it’s 2 buses and will take 90 minutes each way - you may as well do it because it’s only a 15 minute drive. You have 2 primary aged dc and they get 20 invitations a year between them. You can do the school drop off - it’s walkable but he would have to do a 40 minute walk there and back before you take him to work. You have to use breakfast club because he needs to drop them off earlier to accommodate the commute. Easier if you get the kids up early, all get into the car, drop him at work, double back and do the school run and then go onto work yourself. You can do the swimming lessons - the walking route to the leisure centre isn’t really safe and the buses have stopped by the time the lessons finish. Besides the kids have wet hair and it’s almost bedtime. They are in different classes so that’s 2 nights a week, plus karate is on another night. Maybe it’s best if you work part time because being the only driver has suddenly added 20 hours a week to your domestic load.

But it's not though. As we age, we are more prone to certain health issues, eyesight and hearing often deteriorates, and reflexes slow down. That's not age discrimination, it's a medical fact. My own DF knew this and gave up driving when he turned 70. But it seems a lot of older drivers aren't as responsible as my dad was.

This. When I was working, getting to work via public transport was relatively straightforward even though it was a two bus trip - bus into town followed by a bus to the other side of town from the same stop I’d got off at. I could do it in 40-45 mins. But getting home was another thing entirely. The bus from my work into town was a circular route and it took twice as long to get to the point I changed buses as it did in the morning, then I’d have a wait for the bus home. It could take anything up to two hours, and the actual road distance from my home to work was 4.5 miles. So I preferred to drive.

Yes, I’ll just take a train and two buses for a 2hr trip that takes 40 minutes in the car! It’s not realistic for many people to get to work on public transport, especially if they need to drop kids at school first (that would add another bus and another hour to my morning commute, even though it’s only 10 minutes in the car).

It’s called public transport millions use it!

This is quite interesting in Ireland. Over 76 you need a recent letter from your dr and insurance company to hire a vehicle and over 80s can’t hire at all. I agree with JSP that it’s age discrimination.

The self certification system is so wrong. My late FIL was diagnosed with Alzheimer's but was in denial so didn't want anyone to know. MIL played along with it and let him fill in his DVLA applications saying that he was fit to drive. Eventually MIL took over the driving but they still had 2 cars and if she went out she would regularly come home to find that he had packed the car with random items to go home (they had been in the same house for over 25 years). I was terrified that he was going to actually get behind the wheel and try to drive to wherever he thought home was. Eventually I was listened to and MIL took his keys away and removed him from the insurance.
For years I avoided going in a car with him and made sure that my DDs didn't either. That was confirmed in December 2018 when PIL, DM and I went to hear DD1 perform in a concert. DM and I had got the bus into the city and MIL offered us all a lift home. It would have been a familiar route to him but at every junction MIL was telling FIL where to go and telling him to stop and go at traffic lights. It was a frightening 20 minutes.

The leaflet actually says- May cause drowsiness, if affected do not drive or operate machinery.

She doesn't believe it makes her drowsy so therefore it doesn't apply./

Postbuses used to be a thing in the UK. Last one ran in 2017.

Not just older people either, so many people of all ages are utterly oblivious to what goes on around them on the roads, what signs mean, what road markings mean etc.

I don't give a shit, frankly. If you are not safe to drive you are not safe to drive. I'm in favour of mandatory retesting every ten years, increasing to every five years after the age of sixty.

I hate that people get away with racking up large numbers of points on their licence because they claim hardship when it comes to court. Driving is a privilege, not a right. It should never be prioritised above the risk that someone might kill a pedestrian.

Not true everywhere. My reasonably mild cataract was diagnosed by my optician last June. I had a lens replacement in August. My health trust is buying in services from a private clinic. The whole thing was very speedy and efficient even though my cataract wasn’t impairing my sight to any great extent. I could still pass the eye test required for driving.

My mum and her brother simply took my grandfather’s keys away and sold his car (helps that my grandfather and uncle owned a garage together at the time). If you don’t want to report then you need to stage an intervention. Nobody will ever give up their independence willingly.

I don't know if you've done this already, but it might be worth asking her if she thinks she could cope with a prison sentence at her age, which is exactly what would happen if she's involved in an accident and convicted for driving whilst on morphine. I'm sure the leaflet in her medicine pack clearly says "do not drive or operate machinery".

I feel for you...... My mum is 81 and did not pass her test until later in life.

She walks nearly doubled over
Is on so much morphine it would slay a cow
Was always a bad driver but now is even worse and can barely see over the dash board
Never uses her mirrors
Hits the kerb a lot
Gets flustered and in a panic
Has bashed the car so many times.....

What have I done?

1. Asked her hospital consultant to tell her not to drive - the hospital pharmacy merely wrote a letter telling her to consider with the amount of opiates she is taking if she would pass a drug drive test. She ignored the letter telling us that they didn't tell her not to drive.

1. I've reported her to the DVLA 4 times - each time they send her a form that she fills in and sends back.

1. I've reported her to the local police on 111 - no action

1. I took her keys and left her thinking she lost them - she ordered a new set.

1. I reported her to motability who give her the car and without a doctors letter they can't action my report and even then it would not be anonymous - as its a motability car, I have no right to just remove the car from her.

1. I have asked her GP to tell her not to drive but technically arthritis and old age are not medical reasons for not driving and he won't make a judgement on her driving

1. I've spoken to her at length about stopping driving - she says no one is going to stop her from driving, she'll drive if she wants and if anything is written to her she'll claim she never got the letter. I know for a fact she has shredded the letter the pharmacy sent her.

I refuse to get into the car with her.

However, for those saying just use a taxi. She takes nearly 40 minutes to get out of the house and into the car - no taxi is willingly going to wait that long. Once she gives up driving she literally will be housebound (I live 350 miles away and am the only family she has left as I'm an only child).

17 year old, just passed his test, mixed up accelerator and brake pedals and rammed the car in front of him in a stationary queue of traffic. According to a witness he'd been "driving like a lunatic" before that.

Young drivers cause more accidents than anyone under 80 - going to take them off the road too? Young drivers do less mileage than older drivers, some of the comments here are rubbish. www.statista.com/statistics/376604/driving-distance-in-england-uk-by-age-and-gender/

Sounds like he got the accelerator and brake pedals mixed up. I hope he stopped driving after this.

While I agree with people moving in good time to an area with better public transport links, the trouble is that the effects of ageing tend to creep up and people often don't realise while it's happening. It's a hard thing for a lot of elderly people to accept that they simply cannot do all the things they are used to doing anymore. Or they might think "well, I'm OK now, I'll stop when the time comes" and don't realise it actually has until its too late.

My mum’s the same. I kept saying to her that I knew she couldn’t see properly, to the point that I refused to accept lifts from her. Anyway, she finally had her second cataract done and she finally admitted that she hadn’t been able to see very well. I think she’d been expecting us to be really surprised but we just shrugged and said ‘we already knew that’ 🤷‍♀️

In London there is already Taxicard for elderly/disabled people, offering massively subsidised taxis. It used to work well but has got overloaded and less reliable. There is also Dial-a-Ride, I don't know if that is national or not. Over 60s in London have free travel on public transport. Hospitals provide transport services. In the rural area we often visit, there is a voluntary service giving lifts to elderly/disabled people to appointments etc. it's not like there's nothing available but it's not the same as having your own car outside your front door. People have to accept change and, as many have said, move in good time to somewhere with nearby services.

Sure, something community-funded would make sense; local people can club together and sort out some small buses at times when everyone wants to use it.

In Japan there have been some innovative options, like working in conjunction with the vehicles that deliver post and deliver food to the local shop; people are informed of the times of the deliveries and can get seats into town when the vehicle has made its delivery and is doing its return journey empty. Japan Post has got involved with this; it is a good scheme, although obviously only really suitable for retired people who do not have a lot going on and are able to plan their day around this kind of vehicle schedule.

My point was that anything funded by the public purse is unlikely to be much of an option, going forward, given the state of public finances. Even in Japan, which has really good public transport in cities, there is little PT in the countryside. PT just inherently doesn't work well in rural areas.

I don't think anyone on here was saying that anyone over standard retirement age can't drive, were they? Only that some people may develop health issues at some point.

There could be a community funded minibus, like there are community village shops, with volunteer drivers. But hang on, they are likely to be retired so obviously not fit to be on the roads.

Because of COVID lockdowns and test delays, sons theory ran out so redid it. Eight months wait for practical test, examiners strikes.

There's no way they'll ever cope with retesting pensioners.