To think my SIL is over the top for this?

I wonder if you'd be so hell-bent on minimising this boys actions if it had been an 'ordinary' holiday and nothing to do with your sister's wedding? As in, you only care because it affects you personally?

I feel for the poor girl, being bullied in this way. What do you think the effect on her is going to be, at such an impressionable age? Eating disorder, maybe? Self-esteem in the toilet, resulting in a series of unsuitable relationships? Being bullied has long-term effects. Lifelong.

You and your sister need to get a fucking grip!

If my son did that there would be very serious consequences for him but what your SIL is doing is punishing everyone.
Its not the severity of it thats the problem for me its the way its affecting so many other people.

But I imagine it is to him really just a holiday.

to all if you adults and especially the b&g it’s a wedding but to him that’s just a day or maybe 2 of the holiday. He’s a teen lad, he’s just happy the wedding is abroad and he gets a holiday out of it.

if the wedding was in the UK and local to where he lives then his punishment wouldn’t be to miss the wedding, it would be to miss the hypothetical holiday his parents would have taken him on this summer so IMO this is appropriate punishment.

his parents know this is a major consequence and seriously puts him out, their choice of punishment shouldn’t be changed just because family are sad he’s not at the wedding.

So you don’t understand that lesbians are also women too? So not only do they get the standard misogynistic crap, violence , lack of equality etc that straight women have to tolerate they also get a whole extra load of crap from both men and women based merely on their sexual preference ?

Is he showing genuine remorse for his actions?

No I don’t think you can argue that one women subjected to a man’s violence is better off than another

Do you seriously not understand the difference ?

Agree what is it with recent posts regarding dc appalling behaviour?! 'Consequences?! How awful for your dc to be given consequences, they'll be do upset and NEVER FORGIVE YOU!!' As if a consequence for shitty behaviour like this should be a fluffy hug and no supper before bed. Bonkers, but representative of parenting today!

I totally agree with your SIL that a severe punishment is needed . It’s a shame that other people in your family will suffer too but I imagine other people in the girl’s family suffered knowing she was upset and being taunted like this. I fail to see any relevance to you saying they ‘fancy her like mad’ and your view that’s she’s ‘attractive’. It was a shitty thing to do regardless of their supposed feelings.
I too am a lesbian . I adore butch lesbians and they are the hottest women in the world in my opinion . However I am a femme lesbian and if someone called me butch I would be hurt.

So she obviously doesn't want him going on the holiday/ to the wedding..for whatever reason
And is using this school issue as the excuse
Is she trying to punish the bride and groom in some way ,does she not get on with the bride ?

This punishment is unhelpful. The SIL should go back to the school and ask for further sanctions and find ways of punishing that are actually connected with the issue e.g. remove all phones and social media etc. as he isn't mature enough to use them and can't be trusted yet/ground him as he can't be trusted around this group of boys/ask a police support worker to speak to him about hate crime and seriousness of using that language/directly apologise and in writing to the girl and her family.

The holiday has nothing to do with name calling and may well cause bigger issues in the future with their relationship.

We have had a similar situation with an older boy bullying my son about his disability (I posted here about it). We had a good result: the boy was told in no uncertain terms what would be the consequences of any further name-calling (police as a hate crime etc.) and he had to apologise to my son. He realised how serious it was, why it was so wrong and he is now actually very kind to my son and they are friends.

This was a good outcome as my son saw me model what to do and how to take action and why it was important to do so, and the boy involved had the chance to change his behaviour. It could have been counterproductive to completely demonise him.

Plus all the people it's going to upset.

Give over, no wedding has been ruined due to the absence of a jumped up little shit using misogynistic slurs against girls.

Your SIL is absolutely right to do this.

Your nephew needs to learn that a comment such as butchy butch to a teenage girl could easily give her lifelong hatred of her body. An eating disorder. Destroyed confidence. Quitting sports to become less muscly. Teenage girls can be cut to their core by this stuff. She now knows that even if people don’t say this stuff, it’s what they may be thinking.

in actual fact, the impact of saying something like this to a teenage girl is worse than punching or kicking her. Physical wounds heal. Mental ones often persist forever.

so him not getting a holiday is far from disproportionate. How about that girl wouldn’t go on holiday as she wouldn’t want to show her body.

id have him watching documentaries about people who’ve died from eating disorders and who have been destroyed by bullying.

I have a boy and girl both older teens. I would be utterly appalled if my ds called someone butchy butch.

aunty whose wedding it is needs to get a grip. Her wedding isn’t impacted by the absence of one nephew.

I agree with the others who say that it's probably more about him missing the holiday rather than the wedding. How many 15 year old boys really care about a wedding? You see so many MN posts about people not wanting to go to weddings.

Your brother and SIL will know more about this situation than you, you'll only know bits of it and there's probably more to it.

Well done to the both of them.

Say what now? Setting a punishment for her child that has behaved abhorrently is bullying? Wow!

Far too many teenagers have taken their own lives due to behaviour like this.

I'm team DB and SIL all the way.

Plus all the people it's going to upset.

So, @killingpeeve the upset of a young girl, bullied by a mob of boys, is worth nothing?????

You are part of the problem.

Except it is apart from the few hours of a wedding

So the rest of the time he gets to have fun while he suffers no consequences for his actions

Agree. I am thinking this concern is probably more about how it will look to others that the nephew isn’t there

If asked are they going to have to explain that he isn’t there as punishment for being a bully - doubt it

Same here. There's a lot of excuses being made for his behaviour.

It's very OTT, but at the same time, I can't fault her for coming down like an absolute tonne of bricks on him for this. We complain constantly about parents not parenting, and letting their children get away with all sorts of horrible behaviour, and here she is taking it every bit as seriously as anybody could ask. I don't think he will forget this in a hurry.

I think backing down now would be a mistake even if she is privately regretting such a dramatic consequence.

I wish the school had acted appropriately.

(Also, the bride needs to get a grip. She might be "very close" to him but I think the world will continue to spin on its axis if he does not witness her wedding, and perhaps instead she could support the boy's mother in taking his misogynistic and homophobic bullying seriously.)

Taking his phone away and access to Internet will have more impact than missing a family wedding that he’s probably secretly not looking forward to.

OP it’s their son and their choice. I don’t think 15 year olds would care about missing their aunt’s wedding so the real punishment is missing a holiday which sounds fair enough. I don’t think it’s so out of proportion to justify the rest of the family weighing in and making this into a bigger issue than it is.

I suspect one of two things is happening. Either a) she suggested this in a moment of absolute rage/outrage and doesn't want to row back on it so he learns that she doesn't mean business b) she's got it in mind to relent on the holiday if he shows signs of genuine contrition or other unknown-to-OP things, but won't be bullied out of her consequences by the family. Good for your brother and SIL. Hope it works.

FYI if my nephew hadn't been able to come to our wedding it would have been a shame but in no way would it have "ruined" the day.

Her reaction is way over the top. But her kid 🤷‍♀️

I have to say SIL’s punishment isn’t one I would use but whilst it is harsh, it’s so much better than saying school have dealt with this and move on.

Ideally, school would be better and your SIL wouldn’t feel she has to take this stance.

I think parents who have kids who bully should take a hardline approach with them and your SIL is clearly doing what she thinks is best.