Biden Trump debate- they must get rid of Biden now?

I understand my point is shallow but there is no doubt that does hold some power in itself maybe it is down to ageism don’t know.

All those policies you mention have a right wing spin on them that is exactly why we are seeing the demise of the liberal democracy. Trudeau probably best represents that notion well he did but people in Canada don’t want that - why is that, what is a undermining this?

I don’t know who’s been telling you about this Kamala theory, but it’s not how it works. It’s not the UK, where leaders change in between elections. Presidents stay on for the duration of their term.

The Democrats have not “spent all of their efforts on the charges”. Trump’s charges were brought by the justice departments where the crimes were committed—the State of New York, the State of Georgia, and the federal charges by the US Department of Justice. “The Democrats” don’t get to run the justice system and decide who gets charged with what crimes, just as “The Tories” don’t get to run the justice system and decide who gets charged with what crimes.

What beats me is how the hell they ever expected Biden to get through the gruelling campaign at all; last night was just one event but there are much harder things to come

They really do need to invoke the 25th now if he won't go of his own accord, except it's probably too late

www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/amendmentxxv#:~:text=The%2025th%20Amendment%2C%20proposed%20by,removal%2C%20resignation%2C%20or%20incapacitation.

And Gen A and Gen Z in western Europe, don't forget. Also central Europe and northern to an extent. If you look at the age bands of supporters of the right wing parties in Germany France Sweden Poland Czechia, the under 30 share has grown quite surprisingly since about 2020.

I thought it was 1980 as I am an on the cusp Gen x, married to a very old Millennial! I actually do think Gen X and my parents Boomers were more interested in liberal democracies. My parents were young socialists and loved And my mil was a bit of a hippy, they had all these ideals that they were fighting for. I think Gen x were very much anti corporate especially teenagers in the 1990s both in the uk and the us with Grunge movement etc but I think things turned in about 2000 when the dot com millionaire was lauded

I think voters are smarter than being fooled by 'good looks and charisma'. There's a lot of reasons why Canadian voters are getting frustrated with the Trudeau Government and they are to do with real issues like cost of living, crime, immigration, environmental laws which many think are damaging the agrarian economy, infrastructure, experiemtnal surgery on children. These are all issues that Canadian voters in polls have consistently saying they've been worried about since lockdowns ended so I think people will tend to vote on those rather than looks.

Why does the US hardly ever have any candidates under 60/70? Anyone actually know?

Totally. Trump will win by default if he doesn't step aside.

It’s frustrating people focus on Biden’s age. There are plenty of extremely fit, healthy and razor sharp people in their 80s. And there are much younger people who are slow and confused.

It’s the person people should focus on, not the age of the person. That’s ageist.

And there’s a tendency to focus on the negatives about age (slow, doddery, might die soon) rather than the positives (e.g. extensive personal and professional experience leading to greater insight and wisdom). Though again not universally applicable, e.g. Trump.

As for elections, I’m finding both UK and US totally depressing and uninspiring.

A more chilling precedent is the Hungarian disgraced left-wing leader who would not step down and managed to give the unpopular (but less so) Victor Orban a massive super majority (in a country where that is a real thing rather than a Tory election phantom).

Harris isnt the answer. She is out of her depth I feel she was put in place because and anyway the Democrats are so far up themselves they think Biden is the answer against TRUMP! Why on earth do they think that??

Also I read an article that said the biggest issue that they have removing Biden is that he thinks he is doing a great job. His wife helping him off the stage was very sad. I also think he has a massive ego and thinks if not me then who??

The US have brought this all on themselves. I also wonder why Biden agreed to a debate like this? I guess he felt like he didnt have an choice but the Democrats have had plenty of warning about Biden's state of health and have chosen to ignore it.

The muted mics actually helped Trump I think. He didnt come across as too shouty but it didnt help Biden because when it was his turn to speak he came across as rambling and in certain parts didnt seem to know what day it was.

If it's Trump v Harris then the polls show that Trump would win convincingly:

www.realclearpolling.com/polls/president/general/2024/trump-vs-harris

The younger people in the US are more right wing and Conservative with their views on religion and abortion etc. it is the same in Canada, I saw a clip where Trudeau was debating a woman’s rights to choose with a very traditional young man that looked no older than 20. It begs the question, what happened to young people challenging the establishment, Trudeau is Gen X!

When you say how does this manifest, do you mean the deterioration of democracy and the causes of that, or what must be done to revive it?

If people in their 40s are classed as millennials then I include them yes. I thought the millennial generation started with those born in the mid 1980s.

As always, the opportunity for the far right to rise is presented on a silver platter by the alternative being a joke.

If I were American, I’d probably hope to vote democrat for someone like Obama. But the democrats have someone elderly who frankly cannot live without support. You’d really have to think twice before voting for Biden, even if your politics aligned with his. You’d be voting for someone not all there. The fact that the democrats have not replaced him is a terrible reflection on the party - how can they be trusted to run the country if they can’t even present a candidate who is fit to do the job?

What a bloody stupid world we have become.

I lived in the USA in 2012 and 2016. I am not expert, but a couple of things struck me from being there that were not obvious to me before.
The Americans are electing a monarch rather than a Prime Minister.
Biden gives the impression of being a great manager and experienced politician. Trumps comes over as being a terrible and dangerous President.
...But Trump does come over as a President and Biden does not.
Trump comes from central casting as a bad medieval King, Biden would not be cast as a King at all. At best, a dying Monarch who has been manipulated by his far smarter ministers before the true king emerges.

The Democrats (and I have met professionals working for them) have some similarity to Sunak and his supporters.
I heard Sunak's "went without Sky" comments being defended as a question there was no suitable response to. When it was said he could have acknowledged the people who worked for his security and that he has learnt many others did not have that and he wants to improve their opportunities, the apologist said that was not answering the question. The person did not understand what the question was really about and thought people should look at numbers and exact facts.

I had a white young Clinton fan (a rare thing) in 2016 that Clinton is only unpopular for nonsense reasons, and I said to her that the reasons do not matter in when it is genuinely a popularity contest.

Biden could have stopped Trump in 2016 but let Clinton fail instead. I think 2020 was his redemption for that. In 2024, it will 2-1 to Trump if he does not step down.

The other sad truth is there assumption that everyone want to get away from thinking the President has to be an arrogant white man in his position from privilege and old fashioned hierarchies. A lot of people are really OK with all that and they would be furious at Kamala Harris who is brown, female and "only" in that position from being capable and hard working.

He does look impressive on paper.

RBG wouldn't step down at a time Obama could have put another liberal into the SC.
Biden wouldn't step down at a time the party could have assembled a decent enough contender with, crucially, enough time to build support.
And here we are.

Spot on. Democracy is a bit like good Wi-Fi, you don’t miss it until it’s gone.

I’m curious how does this manifest exactly? What does this look like and how are millennials some of whom are in their 40s not responsible in any way?

I do think liberal democracies are in the balance and it is bigger than just the characters look at Justin Trudeau, he lost his by-election. He’s good looking, charismatic, I think he makes a lot of sense when he discusses issues but he still lost. The US surely can produce two candidates that are more appealing than these guys! Well Biden is not the same as Trump but he’s not got enough energy. Trump is not exactly young! I don’t think age matters but the energy levels are important.

My husband just went to check the betting odds this morning-Gavin Newsome is almost even with Biden odds wise to be the candidate

Yes, possibly one, single good thing that might come out of Trump as president. His volatility and maximum pressure approach would likely make China step down re Taiwan.

Like always, these days there is such polarisation on all issues. Just because Trump is a complete t*at doesn't mean that everything would be worse.

I read somewhere that Joe Biden’s decision to stand for re-election will be remembered as the single most selfish political decision of all time, and I am inclined to agree.

At the moment though, people might vote for Biden and get Harris if Biden becomes unfit and people will take that into account when voting.

Who is Trump's VP candidate going to be?

That's really interesting @Stowickthevast - do you think China has more options (other than an invasion) to put Taiwan under more pressure? I appreciate it's a fairly wide ranging question!