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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be uncomfortable with my cleaner bringing her child

131 replies

Panapan · 26/06/2024 18:53

We have a cleaner who comes for a couple of hours a week. Sometimes she brings a colleague and only stays an hour. Today she brought her teenage son - said he was going to help her as he’d finished his GCSEs. I assumed he’d just be hanging around with her but she then only stayed for the hour and charged me for two (ie she charged me for her son). He worked hard and didn’t do a bad job - not perfect but adequate - but I’m not completely comfortable with paying a 15 year old the same as I pay his mum. I’ve paid and won’t say anything as I’m hoping it’s a one off. But if he comes back next week, would it be unreasonable of me to gently suggest that I’d rather he didn’t come the next time?

OP posts:
Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 27/06/2024 23:13

She should have asked you first.

Hazyjaneishere · 27/06/2024 23:07

I personally prefer two cleaners in half the time, much more efficient. As for the lad. If he did a good enough job then it wouldn’t bother me. People should be paid according to the job and their output, not how old they are. I hope the next government makes it a level playing field for all.

ichbrauchenichts99 · 27/06/2024 23:07

MiriamMay · 26/06/2024 19:04

Why is the work of a fifteen year old worth less than that of an adult?

Ask that to those who set NMW.

ichbrauchenichts99 · 27/06/2024 23:06

Of course YANBU.
It's HER job, not her son's job.
Tell her that you will only be paying her for her hours, and while her son seems lovely, you don't want her to bring him to HER job with her.
What if something happened to him?

Fynoderee · 27/06/2024 23:04

carly2803 · 26/06/2024 19:35

i would not like this - you employed her - not her son or anyone else for that matter

i once fired a dog sitter for saying sometimes it may be me, sometimes my partner (who i had not met!) nope!

When the ‘client’ has employers liability insurance, public liability insurance, gives the cleaner holiday pay, pays their NI, puts them in payroll, gives SSP and a pension, then they’re the employer.

If this doesn’t happen, the cleaner is self employed and actually has the right to substitute themselves. The client contract the services NOT the person.

Fynoderee · 27/06/2024 23:01

Self employed workers can actually substitute themselves with another person. She could send a cleaner in her place.

She probably isn’t paying him the same as she will pay herself.

If you have an issue with the work done, that’s a separate thing and a valid case. Having an issue because of their age isn’t really on.

wibblywobblywoo · 27/06/2024 18:26

MiriamMay · 26/06/2024 19:04

Why is the work of a fifteen year old worth less than that of an adult?

Wouldn't it be yto do with paying, or not paying Income Tax?

And OP I would also not be comfortable with that, what if he has an accident whilst he's there, your contract is with your cleaner, no one else.

StainlessSeal · 27/06/2024 16:32

Surely he wouldn't be insured?

Blondeshavemorefun · 27/06/2024 16:24

MobilityCat · 27/06/2024 12:37

Bearbookagainandagain "In most cases, cleaners are self-employed, so they decided how and when the job is done"

Really? So she can pitch up any time she wants, with a crew and get paid for 2 hrs after 15 minutes because your house is clean?

If booked for 2hrs

1 person 2hrs
2 people 1 hr each so 2
4 people 30m each so 2hrs

It's still the same time

Rainydayinlondon · 27/06/2024 13:57

Bearbookagainandagain · 27/06/2024 12:23

This is not entirely true. Unless OP has an actual contract that states the cleaner is an employee under payroll (meaning OP pays her taxes and is registered as employer with HMRC), she cannot dictate how the cleaner do her job and whether she can delegate part of it to someone else.

In most cases, cleaners are self-employed, so they decided how and when the job is done.

That might well be the case if a firm hires out some independent contractors to do a job… clearly they can substitute John the bricklayer for Bob. However when you use the services of a cleaner, you want THAT particular person ( unless you use an agency).

sixpiacksally · 27/06/2024 13:26

MrsSkylerWhite · 27/06/2024 12:40

Why should someone be paid less for doing the same job because they’re younger?

The reduced wage for under-18s that many large employers adopt is insulting.

The job was done to a decent level, just pay.

It wasn't..it needs to be done to the exact same standard as the mother. Not just 'decent'.

@MobilityCat what PP means is that the cleaner can agree their hours - they're not contractually obligated to be there at a specified time unlike a contracted employee.

Also, self-employment allows for substitution - again, unlike a contracted employee. If I can't go to work tomorrow for example I'd have to take leave instead of sending someone else in my place.

The issue here is standard of work. If OP normally gets perfect, she should get perfect every single time..that's all.

As @JadePlantMagic states people hire cleaners because they're efficient. I'd never get as much cleaning done in 2 hours as they do, or even to the same standard. If someone does an 'adequate' job not much better than mine what am I paying for???

JadePlantMagic · 27/06/2024 12:44

There is huge difference between the amount of and quality of cleaning that an experienced cleaner gets done in an hour, compared to that of someone without that experience.

That is why I pay a relatively high amount for a great cleaner. She gets much more than I would get done in two hours.

MrsSkylerWhite · 27/06/2024 12:40

Why should someone be paid less for doing the same job because they’re younger?

The reduced wage for under-18s that many large employers adopt is insulting.

The job was done to a decent level, just pay.

MobilityCat · 27/06/2024 12:37

Bearbookagainandagain "In most cases, cleaners are self-employed, so they decided how and when the job is done"

Really? So she can pitch up any time she wants, with a crew and get paid for 2 hrs after 15 minutes because your house is clean?

Bearbookagainandagain · 27/06/2024 12:23

Hearthfloor · 26/06/2024 18:58

YANBU your contract of employment is between you and your cleaner. There was no prior or formal discussion about her son and at GCSE age he probably would not be employed by a cleaning firm or agency. The fact that she stayed for half the time and still expected the same wage was inappropriate even if her son did “help”. Was she supervising him as he cleaned? It can be easy to use the wrong product on the wrong surface and cause damage or staining.
If he comes again state that he is welcome to sit and wait but not to work or come in future.

This is not entirely true. Unless OP has an actual contract that states the cleaner is an employee under payroll (meaning OP pays her taxes and is registered as employer with HMRC), she cannot dictate how the cleaner do her job and whether she can delegate part of it to someone else.

In most cases, cleaners are self-employed, so they decided how and when the job is done.

LuckySantangelo35 · 27/06/2024 12:15

If he didn’t do a good a job as his mum then you shouldn’t be paying the same. End of.

Dutch1e · 27/06/2024 11:00

She's been very generous with your money.

I'm self-employed and my clients hire me, not me-or-whoever-I-feel-like-outsourcing-to.

I like the general idea of what they're doing, and find it admirable, but palming off tasks to lesser-qualified/experienced people for the same fee is just not on.

Personally I'd be clear with her that she needs to make a different financial arrangement with her son... if I wanted to hire a 15 yr old cleaner I'd have done it already.

MobilityCat · 27/06/2024 10:52

I am not a cleaner, but I have, on occasion, brought one of my children with me while doing contract work. They were paid separately from me.

W0tnow · 27/06/2024 10:45

It would be a no from me. I need my house to look mum’s cleaned it.

ageratum1 · 27/06/2024 10:43

Do you have an employment contract or is she self employed.If she is self employed ( and this is one of the tests for self employment) then you are paying her for the service and she can send someone else suitable to do it.

sleekcat · 27/06/2024 10:26

It wouldn't bother me if the same amount of work was done to the same standard. It's going to be the same money whether one person does it in two hours or two people do it in one. But if the standard has slipped I would point that out as then it wouldn't be acceptable. If my teenage son, also just completed GCSEs, wanted to help me out working I would be delighted.

Balloonhearts · 27/06/2024 10:24

Is she charging you more than was agreed? If so then I'd refuse to pay as you did not ask for a second cleaner, regardless of their age. If not then it doesn't really matter who cleaned it as long as it'd done to a professional standard.

Blondeshavemorefun · 27/06/2024 10:21

I don't see the issue esp as happened before

One person 2hrs

2 people 1 hr each so 2 in all

RickyGervaislovesdogs · 27/06/2024 01:09

TheresMillionsSaidGeoffrey · 26/06/2024 19:26

She sounds like a good mum.

You can’t just decide to charge double! Surely that’s the issue.

Longtimelurkerfinallyposts · 27/06/2024 00:50

I don't get why you were fine with her bringing along a random 'colleague' (who for all we know, may or may not have had any actual cleaning expertise or experience) but not when this colleague was her teenaged son.
I was employed from the age of 13 onwards, including a number of different cleaning jobs. We cleaned bathrooms and toilets and kitchens etc, and used normal cleaning products. I worked alongside other teenagers and adults, and we were all capable of doing the work at the same high standard. I don't recall anyone ever causing damage, using the wrong products or doing a shoddy unprofessional job. Motivated teenagers arguably have more energy and stamina than older folk, so might actually get morre work done.
(None of us were being paid anything close to £18/hr though!)
I think the OP should talk to her cleaner and sort out whether this should be done as a one-person-for-two-hours or two-people-for-one-hour job in future. If she's happy with it being done by two people, their age should not be relevant.