To ask if its fair that inclusivity has excluded my DC from their hobby?

Well to be fair the only person moaning is the op’s child. You have no idea what the organisers are doing. Either way they can’t stop stimming or losing and nor should they.

But do you recognise that it was not your brother's fault that your parents failed to treat you as an individual? In the same way that it isn't this ND child's fault that the organisers aren't doing anything to actually enable him to participate in the activity fully.

Just opening the doors and saying "anyone can join" isn't actually being inclusive. Treating everyone the same isn't treating them equal.

People need to stop blaming disabled people for the failures of others.

I don’t know the ages of the children involved but is there a safeguarding risk of this child being unsupervised. My now adult son is ND. I wouldn’t have allowed him to stay at any club unsupervised. I would also have stayed with him till I was sure he could cope with the demands of the activity, join in and get enjoyment from it and not disrupt or spoil it for others. It sounds like the parents are using this as a break for themselves and don’t care about the disruption.

Except it’s not a walk it’s access to a club and if it was a physical disability needs would need to be accommodated. Group or settings aren’t ever going to exclude a child for being ND.Autism is legally protected. He is stimming. Your son will have to put up with that. He causes the group to lose- tough. I think the child in the op needs to learn some coping strategies as regards losing and tolerance.

Autism is a massive spectrum and the OP should know better .Just because the poor child involved doesn’t present like her dc doesn’t mean he should be written off as badly behaved and not included. The whole world, schools and the workplace is a diverse place with laws for protection. The op’s son will struggle if he doesn’t learn to cope with it.

I have an older brother that suffered a brain injury as a child.

Attending things such as Scouts was an opportunity to be myself, rather than X's brother. Unfortunately, he'd always moan until my parents buckled and signed him up to the groups as well.

It's very, very hard growing up in that environment.

I have huge sympathy for OP's son of his respite and enjoyment has been ruined by a child that should be being kept under control.

Parent of an ND child (ASD and learning delay). This other ND child in the group that is having difficulties with their surroundings, clearly needs support to access the activity appropriately. It is common for children that need additional support to get short breaks funding, which is basically a set amount of hours per week for a carer to help and support them to access activities etc. This would be the perfect activity for them to seek such support for or a parent/suitable carer needs to attend to support them. By ignoring the behaviour they’re actually letting the child down. Thats not inclusive, it’s borderline neglect in my opinion. The child cannot help their behaviours, but whoever their legal parent or guardian is, must know this is an issue? I completely understand how your child must be feeling. I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all of them to feel the way they do. 2 years of persevering shows great resilience!

Being included isn't being "prioritised". Adjustments aren't favourtism. Do you care about your NT son less when you have to give more attention to your ND children? Or are they all still equally loved and important to you even though you have to treat them differently?

This attitude that when you do something positive for one person must mean you take away something for another person is a big problem.

Okay, that's fair enough @bruford.

I have been quite sensitive lately because it does feel as if disabled folks are being scapegoated (by the government right down to mumsnet). I've had to remove my autistic DS from multiple situations because we are not "loud" or needy enough and I do get it can be very difficult for someone's needs to be dismissed because one can pass as almost "normal". I also feel strongly that a child shouldn't be penalised for being him/herself. It's a bloody complicated intersection of right environment, carer dynamics, and tolerance. In the OP's situation it sounds like they're entirely relying upon tolerance and that isn't fair to anyone.

OP , do you think it might be possible given that your are a group leader yourself to attend his group once
a) to support your son and all the kids
b) to assess for yourself how difficult the behaviour is and how tolerant / intolerant your son is.

Might help to have some clarity?

Rights and needs must always be balanced; inclusion doesn't mean removal of others' rights or needs.

Well put, @Garlicker.

Rights and needs must always be balanced; inclusion doesn't mean removal of others' rights or needs.

Perfectly said.

Exactly this. Replies to thread reminded me about a local walking group I would love to join. I can only walk safely as far as the starting point! To be 'included' I'd need the group to magic up a wheelchair, provide someone to push me, and redesign their walks to avoid steps and rough terrain ... thus completely changing the nature of the group, discarding their objectives, and providing expensive support to the person whose needs destroyed the group's purpose.

Rights and needs must always be balanced; inclusion doesn't mean removal of others' rights or needs.

Oh absolutely. I myself have a brother 2 years younger than me with autism and a learning disability. I was a miserable, invisible child who always came second and was often not included/invited to things because it wouldn't be fair for me to experience things that my brother couldn't. It's for that reason that I have firsthand experience of people's attitudes and reactions to other people's disabilities. I have all the sympathy in the world for the OP's son being the sibling of children with SN because of what it means for him as a child in the family. But in society, disabled people face so much negativity, rejection, blame etc from others, through no fault of their own. They didn't choose this life.

The OP's son has every right to leave the group. That is his choice. But it is wrong to say that he is being excluded because of the presence of a disabled child. The OP is very lucky if she hasn't already experienced this attitude towards her ND children.

Agree it's not an ideal situation. Your DC hasn't actually been excluded though, it was still a choice to leave.

The problem is that you don't know if this is down to the other child or not. Your child could be exaggerating. Kids sometimes do not get along. Your ds may dislike this kid. The ND could be a red herring. I think ultimately the club have picked a side here. They think your ds is exaggerating the issue. If the child is such a big issue why would they say this?

The child i mentioned upthread has a brother. He isnt always with them but when he is he looks as miserable as sin

@Scattery I have no issue with anyone going to a cafe.

My point was that @Jimmyneutronsforehead gives examples that suggest that in a group setting, only one person’s needs should be taken into consideration ( in the Knit and Natter group and the cafe). No one else’s needs seem to be important. According to @Jimmyneutronsforehead, they have to leave if they can’t tolerate a behavior.

I just don’t see how that would work IRL. 🤷 Yes, I’m massively exaggerating about the cafe.

As a mother of ND children yourself, you are probably going to have a lifetime of people reacting negatively to your children's existence. You'll come across plenty of people like your NT son who just can't handle the inconvenience and annoyance that other people's disabilities have on their lives. I wonder if you'll be so understanding when it's your own children who are being avoided and whose presences are being blamed.

It is frustrating! I care for a 4 year old who is autistic. As well as another 4 year old and a 2 year old.
He's disruptive- if he decides he doesn't want to do something, then there's no way he will do it which impacts on the fun and experience that the other children should be getting from it. Parents pay for their children to have different activities and experiences with me and I feel bad for the other children if they don't get that.
You are also paying for your son to take part in his hobby and you're not getting what you are paying for. It seems that the leaders don't actually know what to do with the other child and are too scared to approach his parents about it in case they upset anybody.
So I can imagine OP that if this happens at your son's hobby every single week, he will be absolutely fed up of it!

I do agree with you there and I do also agree with the other PPs that this child needs support at this hobby group, and is being failed.

I do think that if the group is run by volunteers though that they've reached the scope of what is reasonable to provide however they risk a breach of the law if this child isn't actively acting in a dangerous capacity, as another pp has mentioned that health and safety laws are paramount.

I disagree with the PPs that have a very limited tolerance for disabled people trying to experience life in the world though.

Every one should at the very least be tolerant of our disabled but businesses should be held accountable for actively supporting inclusivity within their business models.

I'm a retired teacher of severely autistic children in a special school. A charity used to regularly give us tickets to take our children to West End theatres. For Disney adaptations etc.

After the first time (when everyone went) I really wanted our school to select which children went in future. I was with a very complex child with loud outbursts, and she was ruining it for the families behind us in the stalls, who must have paid a fortune for their tickets. And frankly she was getting nothing at all from watching the show. In the end I took her out, leaving my TA team to look after the rest of my class.
Other teachers remained sitting with their own disruptive pupils, which I didn't feel was right.

The debate in the staffroom when the charity approached us again, was... spirited. But the head agreed that taking children who had shown that they did not benefit from the experience, and disturbed paying audience members, was unfair.

A local theatre provided us with seats next to an 'escape' room, and in that case we did take everyone, with the complex children on the end of the rows. That worked beautifully and enabled us to recognise where some children could learn to cope with the experience.

Cant find the post now but im fucking appalled at the father who threatened a volunteer with the equality law when simply being asked to stay to supervise his own child. Obvious he wanted child free time