To ask if its fair that inclusivity has excluded my DC from their hobby?

I have 2 ND kids myself and I couldn't agree with you more, not having the right support in place is as damaging for the ND child as it is for everyone else 🤷‍♀️

@crazyBadger This sounds like a similar situation, the parents are using the activity as much-needed respite, but the problem is that the leadership isn’t stepping in to provide the support that their child needs. So it’s not working for the participants.

I think looking into Explorer Scouts might be a good idea. OP.

I haven’t seen any mention of dangerous behaviours here. I agree if there is challenging behaviour then 1:1 is needed to safeguard everyone though.

" " We had exactly this sort of situation when I was in brownies nearly 40 years ago. I left..."
Bit ableist, no?"

She was in brownies, no?
Which is for children 7-10 years old, no?
Bit mean to label a 1980s primary school girl "ableist" for quietly leaving a group instead of suddenly developing the skills of a 21st century SEND support worker to manage the behaviour of another child such that everyone has a great time or to just put up with having a crap time every week, no?

There is a trend now that any and all behavior from anyone adult or child with special needs must allowed and accepted cheerfully or it is discrimination and you are a terrible person.

First of all that also fosters a reputation that all person with special needs have behavior problems. This actually leads to sn discrimination. Second of all as parents when our children are not "normal" it's hard to give up the dream as parents we had has to be altered. But to force a child to be in a club they really can't handle, affecting others is not fair to either child.

Nice try 🤨 OP has two ND children, so is doubtless less 'ableist' than someone who throws the word around for social credits, without showing any understanding of the problem or offering solutions.

Showing your ableism here

Tick.

It's not your DCs job to solve the problem. That's down to the club leader and the parents. The parents should stay and keep the child under control

We had a similar issue a few years ago…disrupting when the leaders were trying to speak to the group, shouting “I hate you” at the leaders, dangerous behaviours with scissors being used for a craft, etc. The leaders aren’t special needs educators—ours were mostly young-ish volunteers, so it’s not really fair on them, the child with special needs, or the rest of the kids. All in all, not a great experience.

If the OP's son quits then it will probably start a flood of others leaving and then the club may need to address what they're ignoring. It's all very well to tick the 'inclusive' box but not if you then do nothing for that child or the others.

How is this ableist?!

Sometimes I think that children are expected to tolerate a lot more than adults in this department, for example in the classroom vs the workplace (unless your workplace is a school!) This has been amply demonstrated on this thread.

I went in as a helper with an activity with my boys both ND, another lad joined and was always first dropped off and last picked up...

He REALLY should have had a 121 with him he needed ALL of my attention purely focused on him to keep him and everyone else safe (his parents would not talk about his SEN needs , them staying or anything but drop off and run- I get parenting ND kids is HARD and they wanted a low cost break but still...)

Which unfortunately ment my boys and all the other children were missing out on all the fun stuff I use to do while I was there as an extra set of hands.

My boys gave it a few weeks and said it wasn't fun anymore and they didn't want to go back, Very sad for everyone really as I had to leave too as no extra childcare, we never found another group where they clicked either :(

This isn't what inclusivity is supposed to be - just including a ND person without any supports and telling everyone else to suck it up because they're ND and can't help it is not inclusive and not helpful to anyone.

The leaders should be trying to resolve it with the kids. Presumably the point of the "staff free activities" is so that children learn to work with each other and develop teamwork skills without an adult looking over their shoulder - that will often work for NT kids, but ND kids often need more help/scaffolding to develop these skills, it's not fair to expect them to do it on their own or through interactions with peers.

Showing your ableism here

Well the only thing you can do then is have a quiet word with the leaders again. You can only be honest and say this is why my child is leaving and I know of others who have done the same. I have an ND child, but also another that has significant disruption from ND children in his class too. The issue usually boils down to support. Is it because the tasks might be too complicated and too structured for the child. Can they adjust them, or are they too scared to? If the group aren't willing to adjust after speaking to them one last time, I'm not sure what else you can do.

I personally don't take my son to clubs because he is at the severe end and if I attend short breaks events I usually stay. I think the leaders need to speak to the parent again about staying. It is a difficult one.

It is nice that you were able to accept their perspective. In my experience DC usually do tell their parents but I would never dream of addressing it with the parent and I would assume that they'd already know (and not welcome comments)

YANBU. They're not actually inclusive, they're lazy. I'd let DS give up and find another hobby. Nothing else you can do.

ND children are the holy grail on MN OP and they can’t put a foot wrong so I don’t think you will get much support here on this thread.

Except from me. If that kid is able enough to participate he is able enough not to ruin the experience for everyone or anyone else. So sorry for your kid if he was enjoying it before.

Anyone got a good trusted link to explain ND in simple terms please? Ive had a google which just said its not a diagnosis in itself but you never know the validity of random sites.

My dc is autistic. He went to cubs and caused chaos but loved it. Unfortunately I didn’t know that he was causing chaos until he went missing while up a mountain. We found him but loads of other cubs told me ‘Sam never listens, he always runs off and causes trouble’.

I wish a child had told their parents and that they had told me so that I could have considered what to do.

it might be time for you to do some gate gossiping as you call it, and perhaps arrange for the parents to approach the club en masse to get it addressed.