To ask if its fair that inclusivity has excluded my DC from their hobby?

It's not inclusive if they're not supporting those who need more support.

@saraclara You sound to have been an exemplary teacher, persevering, imaginative, and sensible - the children you taught were fortunate.

@Sniffle555 I agree that carrying weaker members of the team is a life skill. The kids need to be taught how to do this- that if X refuses to participate, for example, it’s fine for someone else to do his part and let him play.

Children learn and are taught life skills, they aren’t born with them. It sounds as if they need some guidance in this situation and they’re not getting it.

The OP says that the group he was in complained.

As for the Adult leaders, I don't know them anymore than I know the OP.

One child says they’re not. Adult leaders say he’s exaggerating. Nobody else has complained.

If the child in question was taking part in the activities, I would agree with you, but from what the OP says they are not. #

So this isn't about carrying weaker members of the team or life skills.

Maybe go back to the group and explain the easier way around is that this child simply doesn't get paired up with your son or in his group, if they are claiming your DS is fixated on this child, they will be happy to accommodate.
Don't allow your DC to give up based on this, teach him that we try to find ways around it.

We ensure parents stay with some of our SEN kids or kids that are struggling to get involved, another set of hands and eyes can be vital.
We adapt activities to suit the needs of some of our children to try and ensure it is a good space for all.

Also it's a waste of everyone's time and money if the activities can't get completed properly.

Carrying weaker members of a team is a life skill. Kids are used to this as children aren’t now packed off to special schools, every class has kids refusing or not participating in group activities. Trust me schools don’t have 121s to support them all to join in either.

@Sniffle555 But the rest of the children could still do the activity?

That what I think is the real issue in the OP’s example. The kids are told to work together as a group and presumably not to exclude anyone. If one child refuses to do it, they try to accommodate them, it doesn’t work, and then they don’t do the activity/it’s badly done.

The adults need to tell them what to do if the child refuses to participate- and reassure them that they won’t get into trouble if they go ahead without him. Job done.

Nobody cared.

@Sniffle555 What happened if your child didn’t want to do a group activity?

Being removed? No. Being supported so they are happy, well cared for and safe? Yes.

I left my daughter every time.

Nope, the pack thankfully didn’t have a child trying to oust her. The leaders have said the child is exaggerating. Nobody else has complained. So lovely seeing posters never the less baying for a child with a disability to be removed.

I’m sure you didn’t throw your child and brownies or scouts and leave though?
most parents will prepare their child - as much as possible. Some children will manage it very well and have a positive experience. Some children, like those who do not have SEND, just won’t enjoy it and won’t cope it and maybe will hate it?

@Sniffle555 I imagine that your child was appropriately supported at Brownies and Guides though?

It sounds as if lack of guidance and appropriate support is the real issue in the OP’s example. The other children have no idea what to do when the ND child refuses to participate in group activities-because the adults haven’t given them any guidance!

I don’t think you get to speak for all ND children or lecture to their parents actually. I didn’t stay at guides or brownies.

The world is operated by the NT majority. That is a fact, whether we like it or not. However, the idea that people who are ND must conform or be ostracised is an old-fashioned notion that I had hoped was no longer considered acceptable. Helping and supporting someone doesn't mean changing everything about them. It would be impossible in any case. People who are ND can't just magically become NT, even with all the support in the world. It isn't a choice. The idea that the NT of the world shouldn't have to make any sort of accommodations for others, when the ND make accommodations every single day of their lives, is really sad.

My brother who I wrote about above has been treated terribly throughout his life. Very few people have been willing to look beyond the stimming and social difficulties to see him for the remarkable person he is. He has never hurt anyone. He's incapable of it. But the world remains a terrifying place for him, because the rules that an NT person absorbs without consciously being aware of it are unfathomable to him. It's not that he is ignoring those rules. He truly can't understand them, despite being extraordinarily intelligent from an academic perspective. But he tries every day of his life even when he is knocked back time and again (both literally and figuratively). He is quite frankly the bravest person I know. If he could receive some consideration and tolerance, it would make all the difference to him. And yet most people seem content with ignoring him, excluding him, relegating him to the sidelines. Sometimes they make a pretense of inclusion, while in fact setting him apart. This has happened all his life. And these same people have often patronisingly said they are only concerned for him, they only have his best interests at heart. What rubbish. They just feel uncomfortable around him because he is ND and they don't want to open their minds. It makes my blood boil to think about it. When it doesn't make me weep.

We are doing ND children no long-term favours by shoehorning their behaviours into situations such as the OP's.

Yes. For those who read my posts about the girl who I had to remove from the West End theatre, she should never have been put in that position. I knew her very well, I knew that she'd find it sensorally difficult, and I knew she'd respond by being loud and physical and ruining it for all those who'd looked forward to it and spent a small fortune to go. But I was over-ruled by those for whom inclusion was gospel.

But that does NOT mean that we give up on helping severely ND people access acitivities and events.
I had another pupil who was at a different level of severity, and verbal. His mum said that they'd tried to go to the panto as a family and had to bail after five minutes due to his distress, and how sad that was. In this child's case, I knew that if he could manage the dark and the sound, he would really enjoy it. So over the next ten months, we worked on that. We had two trips to the very small local theatre, and I negotiated with the theatre to take him to the back of the auditorium where no-one else was seated, and where there was easy access to the exit. I talked him through it, he climbed on my knee for comfort initially, and I whispered to him encouragingly and explaining to him what would happen next. He gradually relaxed a little, end ended up in his own seat, just holding my hand.

The second time (in the meantime we'd been working on bright lights, loud sounds and darkness) those seats were available to me again. But after he was used to the dark and was managing better, and I saw him looking at his friends a few rows in front, I asked if he'd like to join them, and he did. By half way through he was really enjoying it.
That Christmas, his parents took the risk of booking the family to the panto again. We talked about it at school, he went, and he loved it. His parents were ecstatic. They just wanted to do this thing as a family, and we achieved it.

That's how including a ND child works. You DON'T put them in a situation which they know is going to end badly. You choose something where there's a reasonable chance of success (eventually) and that you know they will ultimately enjoy. And you structure it so that there's an escape route, and so that disturbance to others is minimised.

But of course it requires one to one support. So I'm afraid that parents have to be prepared to stay at something like Scouts or a hobby activity. And to choose it wisely.

That's not remotely what that poster said.

In other words they should stay out of sight so that people aren't offended? Jesus Christ!

Which is why the burden shouldn't be on children to monitor/regulate behaviour. The grown ups need to do better.

@ThatsAFineLookingHighHorse Yes, that’s the impression I’m getting about these group activities in the OP’s posts. The 13-year-olds are told to work together and simply don’t know what to do when the ND child refuses to participate- because they’re just children! They don’t know how to make the correct adjustments, how could they?

I completely agree. We're asking children to bend over so far backwards to accommodate and include everyone at all costs that we're breaking them. That's not sustainable or fair to anybody.

Which is why the burden shouldn't be on children to monitor/regulate behaviour. The grown ups need to do better.

What an awful post and exactly the opposite to what we’ve been told by professionals.

“I think that the onus should/must be on ND people fitting in with the majority whenever and wherever possible. “

Doing this is called masking and has caused my dd massive mental health difficulties and her to make attempts on her life.