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Original poster

Paula Vennells is history but now at the Post Office Inquiry is Fujitsu distinguished engineer Gareth Jenkins - thread 4

951 replies

nauticant · 25/06/2024 21:22

A continuation of this thread:

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/5094266-paula-vennells-was-done-the-other-week-the-post-office-inquiry-is-now-questioning-associates-and-others-thread-3

When the hearings are going on, live-streaming can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/featured

All of the previous hearings can be found here:

https://www.youtube.com/@postofficehorizonitinquiry947/videos

OP posts:
Thread gallery
14
DontStopMe · 27/06/2024 12:39

I think it was 10 minutes.

DanielGault · 27/06/2024 12:39

Lunde · 27/06/2024 12:36

When are they back from this break?

I missed what time, sorry.

Lunde · 27/06/2024 12:36

When are they back from this break?

DanielGault · 27/06/2024 12:32

DontStopMe · 27/06/2024 12:28

Ha! In his line, people 'picking apart' what you say and do is very much part of the job. As he should have been doing to others.

Show quote history

It was JBs tone that amused me. It was like an eyeroll without the actual eyeroll

DontStopMe · 27/06/2024 12:28

DanielGault · 27/06/2024 12:24

'apologies for picking it apart' 😂

Ha! In his line, people 'picking apart' what you say and do is very much part of the job. As he should have been doing to others.

DanielGault · 27/06/2024 12:24

'apologies for picking it apart' 😂

grumpygrape · 27/06/2024 12:17

Bandwagon wasn’t my choice of word, I’d seen/hear others using it so I did too. So, you jumped on the bandwagon, bandwagon did you ? Just wanted to join in with trashing the SubPMs. Grrrrr

Unaware of so many things but not the political (with a small p) niceties of the relationship between Fujitsu and POL.

He said on Monday he wasn’t aware of the difference between Civil and Criminal cases. Does he live in the real world or just in Techie world?

CustardySergeant · 27/06/2024 12:06

He keeps ignoring the question actually being asked when he speaks.

DanielGault · 27/06/2024 11:57

JB really needling him now.

Quebeccles · 27/06/2024 11:45

Lunde · 27/06/2024 11:37

Oh god - Elaine Cottam! My youtube rolled over to her testimony during the lunch break last week so I watched the first hour O M G! It was horrifically fascinating.

JB had to work really hard for the most miniscule admissions from her ... she would not even agree the gentle opening questions about her work history ... like the dates she worked at the PO ... the jobs she did.

At one point she claimed not to remember the dates she worked a particular job ... JB pointed out that she had given dates in a witness statement many years earlier and asked if the inquiry could assume they were correct at the date she swore to them .... but she argued with JB at them and he was tearing his hair out just trying to get basic agreed facts,

I must go back and watch the whole thing

Show quote history

You'll lose half a day, Lunde. If you’re anything like me you’ll be hypnotised by the sheer horror of it.

JB pointed out that she had given dates in a witness statement many years earlier and asked if the inquiry could assume they were correct at the date she swore to them .... but she argued with JB at them and he was tearing his hair out just trying to get basic agreed facts

When she said she didn’t remember a particular year ('AT ALL') I did have to laugh - slightly hysterically - at his 'but do you remember the decade?'

Lunde · 27/06/2024 11:37

Ruperims · 26/06/2024 20:53

I don't know if it's allowed on a new thread but I've just watched Elaine cottam from nov.... Oh my god, what the hell was that?!

Oh god - Elaine Cottam! My youtube rolled over to her testimony during the lunch break last week so I watched the first hour O M G! It was horrifically fascinating.

JB had to work really hard for the most miniscule admissions from her ... she would not even agree the gentle opening questions about her work history ... like the dates she worked at the PO ... the jobs she did.

At one point she claimed not to remember the dates she worked a particular job ... JB pointed out that she had given dates in a witness statement many years earlier and asked if the inquiry could assume they were correct at the date she swore to them .... but she argued with JB at them and he was tearing his hair out just trying to get basic agreed facts,

I must go back and watch the whole thing

DanielGault · 27/06/2024 11:24

He says 'it never occurred to me ' quite a bit doesn't he. At what point does that show you up as incompetent? There just seems to have been so much arse covering across Fujitsu and PO, it's like they weren't all that bothered to get the thing fixed. It's astounding.

Original poster
nauticant · 27/06/2024 11:04

Internal email exchange within Fujitsu where, having become aware of an integrity problem, they suppressed that knowledge rather than disclose it to Post Office as was the original intention.

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Quebeccles · 27/06/2024 10:53

Apologies for double post

Original poster
nauticant · 27/06/2024 10:53

The cutaway to the lawyers showed Seema Misra sat next to her counsel Flora Page.

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Quebeccles · 27/06/2024 10:52

GJ is reminding me more and more of someone at a place where I used to work. Published the definitive guide on an incredibly niche subject. Kept a database which only he could use and interpret, so everyone who needed any information about it had to go to him. When he retired, they had to bring him back on a consultancy basis because nobody could make head or tail of his database.

Original poster
nauticant · 27/06/2024 10:47

There's also the issue that in the case, Post Office, as helped by GJ, were aware of a broader range of bugs, errors, and defects, but did not disclose this. Had Seema Misra been provided with this information, her lawyers would have been able to run a much stronger defence based on the unreliability of Horizon which would have giving her a much better chance to have been found not guilty.

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DanielGault · 27/06/2024 10:47

Quebeccles · 27/06/2024 10:42

GJ is reminding me more and more of someone at a place where I used to work. Published the definitive guide on an incredibly niche subject. Kept a database which only he could use and interpret, so everyone who needed any information about it had to go to him. When he retired, they had to bring him back on a consultancy basis because nobody could make head or tail of his database.

Bit on evil genius there wasn't he!

Quebeccles · 27/06/2024 10:42

GJ is reminding me more and more of someone at a place where I used to work. Published the definitive guide on an incredibly niche subject. Kept a database which only he could use and interpret, so everyone who needed any information about it had to go to him. When he retired, they had to bring him back on a consultancy basis because nobody could make head or tail of his database.

DanielGault · 27/06/2024 10:40

nauticant · 27/06/2024 10:36

Effectively it's an examination about whether Post Office, as helped by GJ, looked deeply enough into what happened at the West Byfleet sub post office, that is the one Seema Misra ran. Did they check everything in order to make sure all of the stages in transactions at that sub post office showed that there wasn't a problem on the part of Horizon meaning they could argue that Seema Misra had committed theft?

Thanks 👍 that all makes sense now. I nearly need them to be using hand puppets at this stage 😬

Original poster
nauticant · 27/06/2024 10:36

Effectively it's an examination about whether Post Office, as helped by GJ, looked deeply enough into what happened at the West Byfleet sub post office, that is the one Seema Misra ran. Did they check everything in order to make sure all of the stages in transactions at that sub post office showed that there wasn't a problem on the part of Horizon meaning they could argue that Seema Misra had committed theft?

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DanielGault · 27/06/2024 10:27

I'm struggling to follow this in any way shape or form today. Would you care to provide a 'for dummies' guide @nauticant 😂

Original poster
nauticant · 27/06/2024 10:18

Maybe I'm a soft touch but Jason Beer here seems to be suggesting that GJ would have needed to have provided an enormous amount of work detailing everything that he'd ever encountered in the Horizon system about it not working as expected. GJ was in a bind, he viewed the scope of that as being too much, and so I think he interpreted what was needed (overly) narrowly.

I think this is also about communications and expectations between two very different worlds, legal and technical.

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Original poster
nauticant · 27/06/2024 09:59

Now, when GJ says that he doubts he's ever seen a document, I find myself instinctively not believing him. That's the fall-out from his day of messy testimony yesterday.

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