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Difficulties with asking Ukrainian refugees to leave after 1+ year of hosting them

113 replies

uainuk · 24/06/2024 23:32

Hi all. I’m a mumsnet reader and I know how helpful and non-toxic this community is, so I decided to ask for a sanity check and advice on my situation. I’m Ukrainian myself, so it’s very difficult for me to be unbiased. And I don’t understand local mentality well enough yet. So your kind and weighted opinion will be very much appreciated. I also want to mention that not all Ukrainians are like the woman I describe in this post (or like me, of course). It’s just a one specific situation.

My boyfriend hosted a Ukrainian mum (50+) with a child (12+) more than a year ago, before we met. He had spare rooms and he’s a very nice and kind person, so it wasn’t a problem for him. He thought it will be a 6-month stay, but it already lasted much longer. In a couple of months after he hosted them we met and our relationship started developing. We decided to move in together a couple of months ago. Before I moved in he started having conversations with the woman he’s hosting about them moving on. She was looking for different excuses why she needs more time etc, but they finally agreed on the date. When the date was approaching she asked for more time and he let her stay longer. And now she’s running out of time again. And conversations become tougher.

She’s been here for more that 2 years living with different hosts, she still can’t speak English properly (because she’s not learning it, but chilling most of the time instead). She has 16 hours/week job and doesn’t want to work more hours on a low-paid job, because she believes she’s entitled to something better. She doesn’t want to rent privately, because she wants a council flat and she says she can’t afford private rent even though she gets Universal Credit and she can get housing benefits.

I’m also a Ukrainian and I ended up in the UK because of the war. I have a good job here and I never was on any kind of benefits, so I don’t know how the system works. But I used benefits calculator and I can see that she could afford renting privately. So I assume she just doesn’t want because she (probably) can’t save that much money if she rents privately compared to social housing. I worked my ass off for my entire life and keep doing that so I really can’t understand her.

My boyfriend wants them to move out, but he is not as direct and pushy as I am (he’s very English and I mean it in a very good way). I’m trying to be supportive, but I’m starting to freak out. The date is approaching and the situation becomes even more stressful for me and him. Even though we are trying to be a team, I think he feels more responsibility because he was hosting them before I moved in. And he’s trying to be nice to her which I believe she takes as a weakness. So the woman is trying to manipulate a lot and is saying how hard her life is and that she can’t move out because of ‘new reason every time’. And she’s trying to make him pay for her stuff, do jobs for her etc.

Am I being unreasonable? Am I being a bitch that wants a poor mum and a child to leave? I feel like I want to build my family and instead I’m having a constant stress on top of my work stress (I have a demanding and stressful job, which I love though and which is well-paid). I feel like he’s a bit too soft, kind and caring to a person that doesn’t deserve it. Do you have any advice on how my boyfriend and I could manage this situation more as a team and not ruin our relationship instead? Has anyone been in a similar situation with Ukrainians on homes for Ukraine scheme that don’t want to move out and how did you handle it?

OP posts:
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George909090 · 06/09/2024 12:52

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ladykale · 17/07/2024 21:18

@Anonym00se i think @eggplant16 was the one who was spot on...

Honestly so much tax payers money wasted.

Also if all of Ukraine is so dangerous, why do MN'ers talk about the people they're hosting going back there to visit?!

Puzzledandpissedoff · 17/07/2024 09:07

It’s much cheaper and easier for the government to leave it up to hosts to sort out, and then allow them to claim UC than it would be to have allowed them to come as asylum seekers

Spot on, @Anonym00se - and despite the tedious and predictable suggestions that "it's only because they're white" I've every expectation the idea will be repeated with others, and for the same reason

Except, now people have learned just how little of the promised "support" is actually in place, I doubt it would have such a big take-up next time

eggplant16 · 17/07/2024 07:48

ladykale · 17/07/2024 02:23

Genuine question: why on earth are Ukrainians entitled to UC when other new immigrants have no recourse to public funds?!

Endless support of Ukrainians is bizarre v. others from the Middle East facing similar situations in their home countries!

Because they are white " like us"

Anonym00se · 17/07/2024 07:43

ladykale · 17/07/2024 02:23

Genuine question: why on earth are Ukrainians entitled to UC when other new immigrants have no recourse to public funds?!

Endless support of Ukrainians is bizarre v. others from the Middle East facing similar situations in their home countries!

Because they’ve got a visa that gives them the right to. It’s much cheaper and easier for the government to leave it up to hosts to sort out, and then allow them to claim UC than it would be to have allowed them to come as asylum seekers. The majority or Ukrainians that came here are working now.

saraclara · 17/07/2024 07:36

Genuine question: why on earth are Ukrainians entitled to UC when other new immigrants have no recourse to public funds?!

You don't have to look much further than the colour of their skin.

Skodacool · 17/07/2024 07:31

Caththegreat · 27/06/2024 19:35

I know a lot of eastern Europeans have a hard attitude but simply put we can't all look after ourselves.Are you kicking her out so you can have a nice family unit and who cares about anyone else? She's Ukrainian like you. At least help her find someone else

Have you actually read the OP? The hosts have bent over backwards to have this woman who has rejected everything.

ladykale · 17/07/2024 02:23

Genuine question: why on earth are Ukrainians entitled to UC when other new immigrants have no recourse to public funds?!

Endless support of Ukrainians is bizarre v. others from the Middle East facing similar situations in their home countries!

DreamTheMoors · 17/07/2024 01:44

uainuk · 16/07/2024 23:54

One more thing worth mentioning. In one of the recent conversations with my boyfriend she said she won’t go back home even when the war ends. Which means she wants to be an economic migrant. Which would be ok, because I’m the economic migrant myself. But she will never get a job that ensures her a skilled worker visa. And she wants me benefits all the way through. Which really pisses me off, because I don’t understand such a behavior. I was raised in ‘Work hard and you’ll be fine’ attitude. So I really don’t understand people who want an easy life on others expense. Again, I might be wrong.

@uainuk

There are people who want “benefits all the way through” everywhere.
They’re in California, where I live. They’re in every other 49 US state.
They’re in the UK and Ukraine and Europe and, well, probably in outer space.
You don’t understand such behavior because you’re a hard worker. I’m a hard worker. Most of us are hard workers - or were our entire lives.
But there are people who aren’t hard workers. They don’t mind having their way paid for them and it suits them just fine.
There are those who can’t work who’d very much like to, because of disability or age, but yeah, there’s people out in the world who feel just hunky dory about getting “free money.”
I think it’s absolutely fabulous that you don’t understand it.
I’m happy for you that everything worked out.

saltinesandcoffeecups · 17/07/2024 01:22

Quoted text: Fantastic. Russian IPSO with posts about which Ukrainian refugees are worthless, stupid and self-serving has already reached the Mamsnet.

Response: You're so cool in a white coat and you're talking about IPSO. Did you shelter strangers in your house? Do you know what it's like to live with people who demand something from you all the time and at the same time speak Russian (in this particular case)? I'm very curious what you did for Ukraine and refugees before claiming it's an ipso. Our community is the most current and fucking of all I've seen.

——

Do not blame me for the translation… I used the internet.

ETA: I meant quote the OP’s exchange with the other person.

uainuk · 16/07/2024 23:54

One more thing worth mentioning. In one of the recent conversations with my boyfriend she said she won’t go back home even when the war ends. Which means she wants to be an economic migrant. Which would be ok, because I’m the economic migrant myself. But she will never get a job that ensures her a skilled worker visa. And she wants me benefits all the way through. Which really pisses me off, because I don’t understand such a behavior. I was raised in ‘Work hard and you’ll be fine’ attitude. So I really don’t understand people who want an easy life on others expense. Again, I might be wrong.

OP posts:
uainuk · 16/07/2024 23:09

Thank you all for sharing your thoughts and replying to this thread. I will add my replies shortly.
UPD: they are moving out in 9 days and it’s a massive win for us. They still want to keep their stuff here (we’ll put it in a basement, I wanted to rent a storage for them, but I don’t want to make my boyfriend’s life harder). They say they will live at their friends flat for a few weeks and then probably will go to a temporary accommodation (their choice, because they still want a council flat and refuse to rent privately). So a bit easier for us because I moved all my stuff to my boyfriend’s house and we really need those spare rooms now. But lots of stress, because the woman is being really mean and rude to me and ignores me in the house etc.

OP posts:
uainuk · 16/07/2024 23:00

Caththegreat · 27/06/2024 19:35

I know a lot of eastern Europeans have a hard attitude but simply put we can't all look after ourselves.Are you kicking her out so you can have a nice family unit and who cares about anyone else? She's Ukrainian like you. At least help her find someone else

Yes, I want to have a nice family unit. But I don’t think it’s fair to say anyone is kicking her out after a 1.5 years of sharing a home with their family. Did you ever try to do that? Letting someone live in your house for year and a half?

OP posts:
uainuk · 16/07/2024 22:51

zendeveloper · 26/06/2024 19:18

Фантастика. Рос ІПСО з постами щодо того, які українські біженці нікчемні, тупі і корисливі вже і до мамснету добралася.

Ви така класна в білому пальто і про ІПСО говорите. А ви в своєму домі чужих людей прихистили? Чи знаєте ви як це жити з людьми, які від вас весь час щось вимагають і при цьому говорять російською (в цьому конкретному випадку)? Мені от дуже цікаво що ви зробили для України і біженців перш ніж стверджувати, що це іпсо. Наша комʼюніті найбільш токчюсична і охуівша з усіх, що я бачила.

OP posts:
Lollygaggle · 27/06/2024 19:51

We hosted mum , dad and child.

Right from the start I registered them for social housing and they were assessed as having no priority needs. I explained to them right at the start of hosting saying they would need to rent privately , unless they were made homeless.

Dad worked but mum has never worked since her child was born , the child is now late primary age , and despite what we have told her , she has no intention of working. She stopped English lessons and did nothing around the house , though it has to be said I think depression was part of the problem.

We repeatedly said they were not eligible for council housing unless they were made homeless and then they would be in emergency accomodation for possibly a year or more. We told them they would have very little choice over where social housing would be offered We also said they could not afford private rent and would not get benefits unless mum worked or was actively looking for work. Even then they would not be able to afford to rent in the metropolitan , attractive area they wanted to go to.

Towards the end of our time I became very unwell and they were rehoused with another host as an emergency . It’s now more than a year and they have been in contact again asking for my help with social housing once more.

I think in some ways it’s a cultural thing that rules are not always rules if you know the right people , but we are now coming to the point again where their current host needs their house back and the guests have done nothing to help themselves.

I honestly think they will have to be made “homeless” and live in a b and b or hostel so they finally are motivated to take the steps we have been telling them about for the past 2 1/2 years ie mum get a job , improve English and accept that they will not be in a position to rent in the highly desirable area they want to , but will have to go to an area which is perfectly fine with good amenities but less desirable. This is hard from someone who has lived in a hostel for homeless families in an inner city. But these are adults and sooner or later they have to make their own way.

I have to say , out of all the Ukrainians who arrived at the same time or even a bit later they are the only ones who haven’t “moved on”. Even single older women have made an independent life for themselves.

Ingens · 27/06/2024 19:39

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Caththegreat · 27/06/2024 19:35

Somewhere else to live I mean

Caththegreat · 27/06/2024 19:35

I know a lot of eastern Europeans have a hard attitude but simply put we can't all look after ourselves.Are you kicking her out so you can have a nice family unit and who cares about anyone else? She's Ukrainian like you. At least help her find someone else

BringItOnxxx · 27/06/2024 19:30

She will only get council housing if she's made homeless and put into temporary accommodation. If she waits too long and they child is older she may get nothing. So she's better and declared herself homeless now.

Mummy2024 · 27/06/2024 19:24

uainuk · 25/06/2024 01:25

That’s a good point, thank you. She is a very difficult person that is trying to find the best option for her even if that’s on other people’s expense, which doesn’t make her a bad person, I agree. I believe she’s rather a bit cynical opportunist. On the other hand, when my boyfriend offered her to help with the rent for the first year (50%) if she rents privately, she refused. It was almost half a year ago when they first had conversation about them moving out. She said she wants a council flat and she doesn’t want to rent privately. Because his help will last only for a year and the council flat will be cheap forever.

If she wants a council place so bad she really needs to present as homeless. My comment wasn't aimed at you by the way. Someone said she would make your lives hell. I just felt that was unfair. Yes she's taken the hospitality abit far but hardly makes her liked to do what they suggested either.__

pollymere · 27/06/2024 12:57

I think it's time she started paying rent to your BF. It used to be that this could be paid directly out of benefits but I don't know if it is anymore. She has decidedly "outstayed her welcome". I don't think she'll end up homeless unless by choice. She needs to do as you have - learn the language and work more hours to provide for herself and her child.

Is there a cultural "shame" card you could play? Ukrainians have always struck me as a nation who don't want to burden others and who repay kindness. (I used to send marmalade to Ukraine to my friend and she'd send me caviar back. Or what I call Ukrainian Champagne 😂.)

I think in your heart you know she is taking advantage but she is pressing your emotional buttons - especially your BFs. It really is time to talk to the Council, set a firm date etc. Explain that the locks will be changed and her stuff put outside on this date. (You don't actually need to do these things).

UmCachorroVerde · 27/06/2024 12:09

zendeveloper · 26/06/2024 19:18

Фантастика. Рос ІПСО з постами щодо того, які українські біженці нікчемні, тупі і корисливі вже і до мамснету добралася.

No need to be offended. Ukrainians are as diverse and different as any other nation and no one on this thread is claiming that all Ukrainians are lazy and self-serving. This is a complex situation with a vulnerable but clearly also difficult person.
We hosted a very well educated ambitious Ukrainian professional who was very proud and keen to become independent and self-sufficient. We could draw on our own networks for supporting her to achieve this goal but she put a lot of effort into improving her English and using every possible chance to establish herself. This clearly isn't possible for everyone and I suspect that the ongoing war, the uncertainty about the future and the break up of families will affect the mindset of most Ukrainians who find themselves stranded outside their country.

deste · 27/06/2024 11:09

I think I would put a for sale sign up, put on a ridiculous price, you dont’ have to accept any offer anyway, your chain could have fallen through etc. she wont know that.

Puzzledandpissedoff · 27/06/2024 10:52

jessycake · 27/06/2024 09:40

It was always a poorly implemented scheme open to abuse , and with all the onus on the unwitting hosts .

It was, yes, but as so often those driving it mainly wanted the headlines, all the time knowing that the fallout would be for someone else to deal with, and those who pointed out the possible issues were damned to hell and back

Sadly it's often the same with policy made on the hoof and at least partly in response to social media outcries, which is why it's not generally a good idea

PeachyPeachTrees · 27/06/2024 09:58

Your BF has been very kind but it's supposed to be a temporary safety net so she can get a job and sort herself out and then move on. She clearly has no intention to ever leave.
Ask your BF how he feels about them still being there in another year, maybe 2 years etc. If he doesn't do anything now that's what's going to happen.