Child who enjoys being deceitful

Are you foster or adoptive parents? I'm assuming from the quoted post. I would suspect if so, that there were previous issues with food (or lack of) from birth parent and it would need a therapist input rather than MN well-wishers to really cure.

Came to say I know boys in particular can thrive on negative attention. Someone I know used to shout at her 2 sons constantly and they would be giggling and sniggering together through it all. It doesn't mean much other than they get to see you explode unlike other adults who can keep it together. It was painful to be around frankly because she was so stressed it became her natural default.

I think moving things they shouldn't access or locking away if unsafe, making effort to calmly reward good behaviour and explaining what you expect of them clearly and sticking to it should help. Some kids love a competition so wall charts with stars and sweets can work but you have to be super fair and not take away from work they do for a star for bad behaviour elsewhere, such as at school, or it throws the whole idea out.

It must be linked to the trauma. Feeling like he has to steal food to survive / was food previously withheld by his previous parent?
I grew up without a sweets cupboard.. just saying it IS optional, not a requirement of life.
Looking at a typical week objectively, does he get enough parent-child time and attention?

Is he in therapy? Have you been educated in trauma informed care? This is essential as a child who went through similar

So if he wants something, why shouldn't he have it? If I want something - I make sure I get it, it's called single mindedness or determination. So why can't he have what he wants? Perhaps his wants need refining, redirecting, delaying or whatever. Work with him, be an ally in supporting him to get what he wants in an appropriate way. Let him negotiate, reach a mutually beneficial agreement. Let this be his strength not his downfall.

You probably know that oppositional defiance disorder is part of ADHD. It's only ODD if you let it become that.

Was going to say ADHD. Both my adhd-ers are adorable but sneaky. It's impulsive rather than deceitful and it may not seem like it, but they care very much. Regretfully I didn't handle it well the first time because I didn't understand. It does pass - either with time or medication, either way, it will pass. Don't make it a confrontation, rather support them so they see you as someone to help them improve as we all strive to do. Ruling over adhd-ers doesn't work.

He believes if he wants something, he should be allowed to have it. That he should be allowed to do whatever he wants.

I think you need professional help. There are some situations where well meaning interventions, trying one thing then another to see what works won't give the best outcome.

And this is going to sound really out there but if he is engaging in thrill seeking behaviour, consider having him tested for Toxoplasmosis gondii infection. It can alter behaviour, so its not fair to leave it untreated while also using behavioural modification therapy.

I can see what you are saying, but sometimes it’s os good to be sneaky!!

I quite often, when the kids were younger, allowed them to be sneaky and naughty in my presents - ‘shall we sneak a biscuit before bed?’ And I’d let one of them take it upstairs as almost forbidden but allowed?
Playing tricks on Daddy was sneaky - he obviously knew and played along - it was fun and the kids thought it was a great game -

Just wondering if this is something he craves, you might allow it occasionally to see we are all sneaky sometimes?

Different perspective?

OP,
Are you related to the child?
It does not sound like a foster/ adoptive situation, because you would not be asking on here.
I am not asking out of curiosity, I think the answer could have a bearing on the advice you are given.

He definitely sounds like he may be ADHD, he could be Autistic as this often overlaps but you won't know for sure. Mixed with the background it will be a challenge.

If he's going to the kitchen looking for these snacks at night time, I'd make sure they are locked away. He might be sensory seeking ( common if he's ADHD). Have you tried getting him all those sensory toys - fidget balls, clickers, fidget ring, spinners. If my son can't sleep he goes in his box and gets them all out.

When I'm not looking he'll go in the kitchen and try stash chocolate in his pocket. I think it's hilarious. I've locked it somewhere away so that problem is solved now! You'll have to use real physical boundaries for now. My son is 12 and still tries it on.

This will absolutely improve with age! There is no magic fix for impulse control but it will get better based on my experience

On some ADHD group I'm on they really advocate certain supplements like omega 3 fish oil and other key nutrients for ADHD brains. I'm trying this out now.

I think with hindsight it was a mistake to mention that he takes food. That's what posters are focusing on when there is clearly much more at play.
However hard you try OP, this isn't something you can do on your own. He needs professional help and a lot of it. But you can maintain strict but fair boundaries while telling him you still love him.
How many outlets does he have? Sports, hobbies, friends? The more rewarding things he has in his life the better, so that he can get his emotional high in more healthy ways.

You’re kidding right? My kid steals sweets because she wants them, knowing full well she isn’t allowed. The other 3 kids don’t. She lies easily and quickly. The other 3 don’t. It’s personality OP. All people have their weaknesses. My second childs weakness is definitely deceit and she does it very naturally. With her I think it’s a mixture of independence and hatrid of getting in trouble. Shes an incredible person though in ways that are unique in our family so other than my concern about her weight and health, I think she’s going to be very strong at making her own decisions and finding her own way when older.

We have 2 children. If we only a had our first born then I'd be really cocky and say it depends on how they were weaned. She was a perfect blw poster child, she eats from any nice restaurant, 1& 2 star level, and has done from being tiny. Second born, feeding him is the most stressful thing I've ever done. He was prem and we suspect some of the awful things he has done to him may have had an affect on his palate. We've had to completely change our holidays because of him. God its easy to sit any judge.

Poor impulse control and thrill seeking behaviour is very common in children who have experienced trauma early on in life. There's lots of evidence about Adverse Childhood Experiences (ACE) and the effects on development, attachment and trust. A calm, consistent and supportive approach is important - gently explaining why he cannot do whatever he wants as it's your job to keep him safe and healthy. I hope you can get some support for yourself too as these are long term problems that take a lot of time and patience to improve. It's a good sign that he's open with you and trusts you enough to talk about the feelings he gets from behaving in this way.

Only read page one- I was a bit like this as a child. Not necessarily the same specific behaviour but I liked being sneaky. I liked doing things secretly without being found out. Sometimes they were forbidden things, sometimes minorly forbidden I.e. stealing sweets. Sometimes things I really would have been in trouble for , I.e. lighting fires. Playing tricks on my brother. Keeping secrets, hiding things. Even things that weren't forbidden.
I didn't like being told what to do and would tend to follow rules only if I understood and agreed why they were there OR if the threat of being caught/punished made whatever it was not worth it.
I don't know what to tell you really, I had loving, good relationships with my parents and siblings and wider family. My parents fought a lot, sometimes very scarily, so maybe I had some trauma, but I don't think of myself as being a traumatised child. Maybe it had something to do with being one of many siblings and the secrecy was like a bid for privacy.
I grew out of it! My parents didn't have deep chats with me about why or anything. They told me off, punished if necessary, got aggravated with me, just normal parenting. I still feel the same as I did about rules though. But I am a responsible member of society! No criminal record!

Maybe just tell him not to or whatever and don't overthink it.

@Renamed good points. My son was into scootering regularly, and loves high adrenaline activities. It's an excellent release for stressed out kids, gives them a dopamine hit and helps with excess energy Id look at giving some of those things a try. Let him take lots of risks in play without getting all worked up like so many parents do.

This does sound like a situation where ‘normal’ parenting ideas and techniques may not be helpful or even appropriate. Can you access more professional support to help you?

My alcoholic parent was extremely consistent.
He came home from work, drank, ate dinner, drank, went to bed, on repeat, every single day of my childhood.
I was a teen before I realized that not everybody’s dad did that.