Child who enjoys being deceitful

OP you sound like you are really trying your best here and coming at it with love. I don't have experience with trauma or ADHD, but you asked what would you do?

If it were me (now that you've tried to talk it through, with kindness) I would take the focus off that behaviour. Like ignore it or give it a brief and stern "hmmm you know how i feel". It's funny that when he acts up you show love. Maybe he is seeking more of that love?

Instead I would try and spend a lot of time building a connection with him in a genuine and respectful way. Invest time in teaching him things that build his confidence. Like cooking, fixing a bike, or something else "normal" but useful that might make him feel worthwhile. Or just spending lots of time together when he's not in trouble. Just my thoughts.

It sounds really hard, OP. I didn't mean what I said to sound like I thought otherwise. It's more that my understanding is that you get better results if you think of all of this as a trauma response rather than him being entitled or difficult for the sake of it. I bet it often looks and sounds like he is being deliberately difficult, and that must be very hard for you. But there's a very confused and sad little boy under there by the sound of it who can't quite believe that the adults around him now have his back. I definitely agree with pushing the LA for more help in terms of parenting from a trauma informed approach.

Does your local authority offer Solihull Approach classes for parents? I think this might be very helpful for your present situation.

I may be completely off side here, but, how about having some sort of puzzle box that he has to solve in order to get to a "clandestine" treat? He sounds like a bright kid, and may get that dopamine hit from solving the puzzle and accessing the treat.

I wonder if he is testing the boundaries?

Without knowing it. To see if you will still be there, still be loving and still be consistent, no matter what?

Just because you're not seeing the changes you want to see yet, it doesn't mean that what you're doing isn't working. There is a huge amount to undo.

That all sounds tricky, and like you're doing your best in a difficult and frustrating situation.

From what you've said, it might be worth investigating whether he also has (FASD) Foetal Alcohol Spectrum Disorder (as well as ADHD), if his birth mum may have consumed alcohol during her pregnancy with him. I'm an adoptive parent of two children diagnosed with FASD, with one also diagnosed with Autism. I can relate to some of the issues you are having, and FASD does affect things like impulse control and understanding and remembering cause and effect (e.g. if I eat a load of sweets the natural consequence is I might feel sick and another consequence is I will likely be in trouble if I'm found out!).

There are overlaps in the types of behaviour you are describing which could be explained by a combination of FASD/ADHD/trauma/ACEs (adverse childhood experiences), and agree that therapeutic support would be helpful, we have had Theraplay and training on therapeutic parenting from social workers which has been useful and effective (and more help than CAMHS). All the best to you all.

Some children crave boundaries and rules to feel stability in there everyday. Which of course is not to say he should be punished.
Make sure you are firm and tell him what you will do to prevent the behaviour - we do not eat sweets at bed time and I am making sure you don't have access to them late as I know how tempting they are. I will have some for you at x time and I'll make you your favourite breakfast.

Don't blame, make sure you confirm the rules every time, empathise, show you care but Hold the boundaries every time.

Love, care, give lots of reasons to smile and laugh to help with healing down the trauma and to strengthen your bond. The stronger your bond - less challenging behaviour.

He doesn't enjoy it even if he says he dies. He is just trying to figure out how stable this (presumably) newish environment is. Children like rules even though they'll never say it.
And please remember he is a good inside child. Always start from that presumption.

If he's been in a neglectful home he could have attachment issues.

It's very common for children with attachment issues to feel more in control when there's chaos. This can be for a variety of reasons but the main ones are - that's their norm and they sabotage security in case they are moved again. It's easier to do wrong to give a reason to push people away than be good and then get moved elsewhere. (Iyswim?)

So you are doing the right things by being open. Remind him you love him whatever and don't like the behaviour and that he doesn't need to be sneaky. Create (as someone said above) chaos that is fun. Do silly things. Have a look at the replay type activities. They involve games such as sticking stickers on each other in mirror or popping bubbles and you tell someone which body part to pop them with.

But also support him to not be able to do the silly things. Have sweets somewhere he can't get access to them. Take away the desire to do negative things and replace with positive activities where he gets attention without needing to seek it.

But most of all keep doing what you're doing. You clearly care for him and those boundaries and working through the issues with constantly provide him with the love and security he's craving.

No advice I’m afraid but parenting a child where you’re unpicking someone else’s bad parenting is next level. Don’t feel disheartened by posts based on ignorance of this. You’re doing a great job.

encourage his story writing?

After your initial post op, I was going to say ADHD but didn't want to get flamed by others for jumping on the bandwagon without further context.

You already know that thrill seeking for that dopamine hit is a characteristic of ADHD. He's had a neglectful start in life, which stays with them no matter how supportive you are.

My nephew is adopted. Similar start to life, diagnosed with ADHD several years ago. Dsis has caught him sneaking downstairs for food in the dead of night, and other similar behaviours. He can never explain why he does it. All I can say is that it has all improved significantly since getting medication. We can always tell when the medication is wearing off late afternoon.

You've said your son is getting assessed for adhd. Is there any way you could afford a private assessment and diagnosis? In the meantime, you could perhaps explore other ways of satisfying the dopamine hit urge during the day. Does he do any sport? Are you following all the strategies for managing a child with ADHD while he's waiting for a diagnosis?

Would some sort of therapy/counselling help? If he's been through trauma, all the punishments, talking, consequences etc will mean and do nothing

I wouldn't presume to give advice over the internet on how to work with what sounds like a looked after child with a history of early childhood trauma, but I very much doubt that characterising him as entitled is remotely helpful. There's nothing entitled about a child who grew up neglected by their parents.

It's not about the food, it's about the thrill he gets from acting in this way. He's having counselling, find him a sport that gives him an adrenaline kick, tires him out and builds self-esteem.

He’s stealing sweets, he’s not making himself a sandwich. He’s not hungry.

I’ve just listened to a fascinating autobiography by Patric Gagne. She describes her reasons for stealing as a child and was incredibly insightful. It demystifies a lot of the stigma around the reasons why some children act the way they do. Whilst the title is Sociopath, I am in no way attributing that label to your son, but the book also removes a lot of the social stigma attached to that label, which I found very interesting.

My mum had me on restrictive diets when I was a child (therapist said it was to an abusive starvation level). I used to grab whatever I could when I could, I’m overweight and still struggle with eating.

I would try not to make a big deal out of this, he’s probably putting on a front about being able to do what he wants because it’s hard for him to articulate that what he’s experiencing is a scarcity response. Having a big chat about it will probably make it worse from his perspective. Buy less sweets stuff, don’t monitor him and when it’s gone it’s gone. But please for the love of god don’t make it a “thing”.

I understand it’s difficult to understand the mindset if you haven’t lived like this. You believe you are bringing order to his life he probably feels you are exerting control and he reflexively knows that he can’t trust other people to have control.

As a parent to fostered and adopted kids stealing food sneaking etc us a fairly normal expression of attachment disorder and insecurity. It also hails from the primitive brain, he is creating some predictably for himself ie if he steals he knows he has food to ho at just in case you don't provide it. It's about him having a level of control in a world that is completely chaotic to him. Punishment doesn't work, you need to work in tasks that offer him some control back such as putting him in charge of making tea (with supervision) put out snack box that he can choose from a selection of snacks for day but once it's gone it's gone. I'd lock away anything at night that is out of bounds such as sweets etc. Eat at predicted times of yhe day, following a routine for other tasks as much as possible. Poor kid, its hard I know but as he settles it will pass.

Therapeutic parenting is the way forward IMO. Punishment will achieve nothing positive for a child who has experienced severe trauma.

I also wouldn’t place too much emphasis on the language he uses to justify this behaviour. He’s trying to find an explanation but saying he enjoys being deceitful is not the full story. I’m sure he doesn’t actually understand his motivations as they are clearly rooted in trauma. I would pay less attention to his descriptions of his actions and focus more on fostering your relationship and creating a routine that reinforces consistency, as part of a larger commitment to therapeutic parenting. It sounds as though you’re doing a great deal already to help him recover from his early years, but it’s going to be a long haul.

Exactly! This is what ‘stealing food’ means. Not sneaking a tin of beans cause your parents think dinner is for gluttons FGS. Not addressing these sorts of eating habits is why we have an obesity crisis.

You need to look into trauma informed care.

In the same way that a severely physically disabled child needs specialist parenting rather than just being told to get their active, this child has suffered severe mental health issues as a result of their parent and needs specialist parenting.

Counselling for him alone will help but he needs to be in an environment that supports it.

In the same way as parents of a physically disabled child might do their physio exercises with the child daily, you need to be supporting his mental health daily and the way to do that is through trauma informed parenting.

Try

www.mareinc.org/articles/trauma-informed-parenting-overview?hs_amp=true
for an introduction

Also here

www.traumainformedparenting.uk

I would see if there are any support groups for carers of traumatised children online or in your area, and read books - those designed for foster or adoptive parents. Although you are a bio parent the situation is very similar.

I also lived with my other parent after abuse and dysfunction with my initial parent. Even though you have the family bond, he has had different experiences and trauma affects your brain development and behaviours on a very basic level.

Trauma and dopamine seeking from as yet undiagnosed ADHD.