To resent that my future depends on whether a man deems me good enough

He thinks if you don’t want children you are deluded or immature. That is enough for me to disregard everything he says.

You’re really in the defensive Op.

You’ve posted on here for advice I guess, but you’re rejecting a lot of the comments and Seem to me to be getting angry with them.

Maybe this comes across in real life too.

Try to be happy in yourself. Having a partner isn’t the be all and end all. I live my DH deeply, but I’m going through the peri menopause at the moment and despise him at times too. Sometimes I wish I were single….

A man doesn’t have to fancy you to sleep with you. Indeed, men are able to sleep with women they actively dislike.

This sort of naïveté won’t help you in the dating world.

I would advise you not to sleep with a man for those two months, wait and see if he is serious about you.

Remember that many men will lie about loving you just to be able to hit and run or use you in some way.

It sounds like you've got a lot going for you. Personality is obviously important for continuation of the relationship. You say you have friends and assuming you have long term friends who are keen to see you it can't be personality related, so it's probably just luck. Happening to meet the right person at the right time. I hope it happens for you.

@MsLuxLisbon And @TooMuchRedMaybe. Well, hopefully, all of the things that OP wants for a relationship. I'm not suggesting that OP needs to bring everything to the table, and should just accept the first bloke who'll have her. I just tried to think of things that have been deal breakers for me and other men I know, so that OP could have a think about whether there's anything shes actually doing that's putting potential partners off. As I said in my previous post, there may well not be anything specific and it's just been bad luck.

And on the self-absorbed point. I'd define it as someone who talks about themselves all the time and isn't interested in the other person. Not good if its either the male or female in the relationship. I'm not saying any of the above list are female specific behaviours.

I haven’t read the full thread OP but I understand exactly how you feel. I was single for 15 years after an abusive marriage. I also had a child and did choose to prioritise him over a relationship. However I used to feel so angry at times that I didn’t have a partner to share my life with. I understand the feeling that others are ‘rubbing’ your nose in it with their happy relationships. It appears irrational to others who haven’t experienced what you are going through. Also people suggesting hobbies, travel etc used to really annoy me. Also the ‘don’t appear desperate’ crew, they could feck off as well.
When my son was older I joined quite an expensive dating agency. I explicitly stated from the start with any one I met that I wanted a long term genuine relationship. I didn’t want to waste my time on the type of men you describe. I met my now DH in my late forties and we married after 2 years together. Is this something you would consider OP? Use your strength of character to really research some dating agencies and find one that has men on it with the same goals as you. Good luck OP.

I was sympathetic but stopped reading when you said you are trying to break up marriages to procure a man…that’s just desperate and pathetic…

I agree, his list works both ways… it’s pretty “universal”, women don’t want a controlling men, a boring one or a guy who doesn’t give affection.

To resent that my future depends on whether a man deems me good enough

Just looking at your title: it is not true. Your future is in your hands. If you want a baby - go and have one. Or two.
Yes, you will have to make financial sacrifices, but life is all about making choices. You don't get to have everything.

You also don't get to choose anyone else's actions. You resent that you can't "make" a man want the kind of family life that you want. You have no right to expect the same long marriage that your parents had, or resent not having it.

It is not about whether you are "good enough". It is just about whether another person's choices match up with yours. That is all.

Did you live with flatmates in your twenties? Or did you stay with your parents until you got your own place?
If the latter, I suggest you find someone to live with - a flatmate. Not a lodger in your house, because of the power imbalance. If you have already bought a property, let it out, and go and live with a flatmate on an equal footing.
You need the experience of living with someone, and all the messy reality which that involves. When the situation ends, find another flatmate. Do this about six or eight times, until you are either eternally grateful that there is no-one else there when you come home, or until you move in with a long-term boyfriend.

Do you own your own house ? It’s weird but I’ve had so many friends in the same
boat and as soon as they buy a house and carry on as if they’re going to be single forever they meet someone. Not that the guys are gold digging, you just send off different signals

@Bobbotgegrinch I really don’t see how your list will help OP. Women don’t want boring self-absorbed men, who offer bad sex, little affection and tons of drama either. It’s pretty universal and not typical of men.

You say you aren't desperate, but I'm afraid that's exactly how you're coming across. It gives the impression that you need a man for validation - I was also like this at one time. Difference is I was late teens, early 20's. Not 30's. I've matured since then and am much happier/confident/content/strong when I'm single. I do have children though - they were what ultimately turned it around for me. And you can have children when you're single, despite it being frowned upon by the majority of people. I was never going to let me becoming a mum depend on me being in a relationship.
But first, I'd highly recommend that you have therapy - I can see you're on the waiting list for it - and the sooner that comes the better.

@Meadowwild said what I was trying to say in a far better and more practical way.

You do come across as desperate and angry.
Take a step back. Maybe join a group where you'll meet like minded people.

OP I'm so sorry you are feeling jaded. It's a hard road and hard that it all feels so victim.blamy when all you are trying to do is date! Afew thoughts.

You have focused on what makes you "good enough for someone to want". But what kind of man - in reality- do YOU want?

You have expressed two views about men here. First that sort of scores out of ten mentality - a kind of ladder thing - some are gorgeous and tall and lawyers and filled with hobbies and rich, some are "medium" ordinary types. It's very externally validating, not internally. It's all about what you think the outer signs of compatibility can be. You're right, things like shared ambition and income are helpful but they are not the kernal of why we love. What men make you feel comfortable in their company? What men do you have an instinctive sense of knowing, or sensing what they're like? Like female friends, which ones just seem on your wavelength?

The second view is that they are doing all the choosing, you're sort of holding your breath and reserving your own judgement, making yourself available and waiting for them to choose you. I was quite shocked in your original post at saying you want someone to fall for you, to be obsessed with you, to fall in love with you. That's never what I have thought! And I've had the usual ups and downs with men, long and short term things, periods of being single, etc.

How about- you want to be able to fall in love with someone? You want a man who sees and understands you so well that you could love him. That man who you will want to throw your life in with his because his emotional world fits so well with your own. Someone who understands your pain and strengths and someone for whom you feel compassionate towards their pain and admire their strengths.

You're sort of saying "OK you're nice, attractive, let's date, OK off we go let's commit, do you want to?" without really checking in with your own soul. So I worry you attract people who do want to connect with you, but you're not really letting them see the real you. If I was a man, I would find it hard to want to commit to someone who is sort of on their best behaviour in the relationship, or holding back part of themselves to try and ensure that I like them. It might mean , sure, there's nothing I hate - but there might be nothing I love either, nothing raw or authentic, nothing that challenges me and puts me on my mettle and makes me think wow, this woman is looking for a man like X, I would like to be that man.

I'm not saying that's what you're doing but I get a whiff of it and it might be worth checking. Basically falling in love is a high emotional stakes game of revealing what you really want, in a gradual way. If you don't reveal it, if you don't screen out those who cannot give you it; or indeed if what you really want is "adequate man with pulse" ; you probably won't get it.

And what do men offer in return?? Also, how do you define 'self absorbed'? I don't want to hear some man bore on and on about his hobbies either, if a man thinks I'm going to sit quiet while he drones on about football or war planes or whatever then's he's got another think coming.

A few things come to mind.

One is - have you tried being choosier? Average men who you would consider might be intimidated by how together you and your life are. Why not contact men OLD who you might consider out of your league and see where that takes you?

The other is - are the ways you fill your life giving you opportunities to meet men? If your friends are all couples, you need to hang out with more singles, male and female. Are the sports/fitness/hobbies you do appealing to men and are they conducive to mingling? If you hike, cycle, rock climb, or do a dance that needs a partner you are more likely to meet suitable men than if you just do a circuit of the gym or go to pilates and zumba. Do your interests allow for flow of newcomers or are they a fixed set of the same people each week?

The third is a bit odd but, have you thought hard about what you really want most from a man - apart from the obvious things of sharing a life, maybe having a family. What kind of life do you want - a very outdoorsy one - wild camping every weekend? An arty one, going off to exhibitions in London and Paris? Intense conversations or silly banter? Reading to each other at night, digging an allotment together or going out partying all night long? Trad roles or reverse - do you want to be main wage earner and find a stay at home man who would make a good dad?

Whatever the quirky things are that you seek beyond the obvious usual stuff, make sure that side of you is very well expressed when you meet people. If you know the kind of life you really want with a man, exaggerate that side of yourself and it might attract the right person. DH said he wanted someone he could be silly with. He told me when he said that to a previous date she just pulled a face. But one thing that made me fall madly in love with him was him singing a silly song he'd made up quietly in my ear during a very glitzy celeb-filled party. He's actually a very reserved, serious-looking man, but had decided as a NY resolution to be more himself after always being the man who women wanted as a mate not a partner. We got together just a week later.

You sound lovely, desirable, intelligent - a catch. Show the slightly more extreme or unusual sides of yourself, don't be scared of being attracted to men you think are beyond your reach rather than trying to coax yourself to be open to men who have less to offer than you do. (DH was very successful in a glamorous job when we met - I was earning minimum wage. On paper I would have thought, no, I won't be his type but we just never stopped talking from the day we met.)

Hut this is exactly why you need therapy @Iwilldrawjapan - you are missing the point. You're making this all about you, it is almost certainly about they guys,. It isn't that you "aren't good enough" (whatever the fuck that means), but they ar not r ady, don't fall for you etc.

You sound very angry, which won't be helping people connect with you. I would suggest finding your peace would be mor helpful than this flywheel of anger and frustration l.

For info, I'm single, in my mid 40s, have had several LTRs but they have all wanted more but I haven't. I'm also objectively very successful, financially independent, funny, many guys say I'm attractive, a good friend, want to sleep with me etc, but frankly they aren't good enough for me/don't float my boat, so onwards I go. I know you don't want to hear it but better alone than badly accompanied and life is what you make it but depending on someone else to validate your self esteem is risky and will always leave you vulnerable.

Random thought, do you make time for someone when you start seeing them? You sound really busy, doesn't leave much time for a relationship I would think?

I was single for years and I remember thinking no one was in to me but when I look back they weren’t the slightest bit suitable, I just felt hurt that they didn’t want to be with me but the reality was that I was trying to convince myself I was in to them when I wasn’t. After ten years of being single I had two nine month relationships, both utter arsewipes in the end. But I walked away from both and I realised actually I must believe in myself more than I think if I can walk away despite the loneliness and all my friends were in couples and I stopped getting invited to things! Fast forward to 37 and I met ‘the one’. I was at a really low point and I honestly thought there’s no way I could meet someone when in that mindset but I did and I finally realised I didn’t have to love myself completely to meet someone or be perfect etc etc, the right person can actually help you work through things too. We had a baby together four years later. So as much as you hate the when you least expect it cliche it can be true! As others have said immerse yourself in stuff that makes you happy, people in relationships will always miss something about being single and visa versa. I travelled quite a bit when I was single, I used to spend my money eating alone at beautiful restaurants abroad it was really fun, I do miss that!! 😆

The only one was my very first boyfriend, but I bet even he would've left.

This is significant. How do you feel about him now? Do you think you would benefit from counselling to get to the bottom of it? First relationships can be so important. Perhaps you expected and assumed a long and happy relationship, just like your parents, and it was a shock when your first relationship just ended.

In that case it could be worth ruling it out completely for now and breaking the cycle, especially if it’s damaging your mental health. Get that cat(s) you were talking about. I’m not saying ‘work on yourself and learn to love yourself’ and all that bullshit, I’m just saying wrap yourself up, shield yourself for a while and enjoy the feeling of being loved by something instead of rejected. It’s what I did for the sake of my sanity. Literally. I was so broken by an abusive relationship I tried to take my life, and there was no way I was opening myself up to that again.

Think OP has included stuff about having hobbies etc and dating average guys to head off all the inevitable questions about whether she is truly fulfilled or hankering after people ‘out of her league’ and it has been misconstrued as defensive and maybe a bit haughty.

Only advice I can give from being in a similar position based on the reasons you have said other things ended is that when you feel a bit beaten down you can try to overcompensate by being very pleasant and amenable which can come across as inauthentic and bland. Remember you only need to meet one and the earlier you ‘scare off’ the ones that are wrong for you the better. I know it is trite but there is some cliche advice I heard somewhere that if you knew you were say 25 ‘no’s’ away from a ‘yes’ you would be trying to get those ‘no’s’ as quickly as possible!stay strong!