To think Jewish people are the scapegoats of humanity?

The OP LITERALLY mentioned Israel and October 7 attacks. How is it derailing to then mention Palestine?

Did I say it was? Or did I say there was no need to bring Israel in to a discussion about anti-Semitism?

It sounds like you're trying to discredit me and paint me as someone weaponising anti-Semitism. Why? What good do you think that would achieve?

Why do so many people seem to struggle with talking about anti-Semitism without feeling the need to force a conversation about Israel?

I'm just catching up on this thread... but I've seen this point raised a few times... it is clearly an effort to discredit the person you are talking to by trying to paint them as antisemitic, which is really not very nice.

Israel is mentioned in the OP! So it is not antisemitic to discuss Israel in a thread where Israel is mentioned in the OP.

Is it?

Why isn't he a good choice in the fight against it? Surely he's the perfect choice if he's now genuinely remorseful and has learned from it? He can speak with experience from both sides. Or do you not think people can learn from previous mistakes?

Some support in the USA. x.com/FreeBlckThought/status/1806125046416703566

Whilst I agree antisemitism and other forms of discrimination are on the rise, David Baddiel isn’t a good choice in the fight against it. He was more than happy to encourage racism during the height of his fame.

https://amp.theguardian.com/football/2022/nov/21/jason-lee-interview-david-baddiel-apology

Humdingerydoo. David Baddiel titled his book ‘Jews Don’t Count’ and the title well chosen as that’s the truth . We really don’t. We are the wrong type of ethic minority.

They're aware. They've been told multiple times. They just enjoy minimising the impact anti-semitism has on innocent people. They like pretending it's not a big deal. And it seems they are now also enjoying pretending that we're all hypocrites.

Some people just really hate Jews and don't think we're worth even pretending to care about 🤷🏻‍♀️

coupdetonnere

For me Brexit was a defining moment in giving those who have always been antisemitic, to give voice to it freely . The day after the referendum result, local Jewish businesses had swastikas and other abuse graffitied on their windows and walls. It felt like it gave people a mandate to more openly express how they really feel. Polish and other Eastern businesses and centres were also daubed and people yelled at to go home.

I and felt pretty safe as a British Jew but since Brexit very much less so, and since 7 Oct, very scared indeed. I went to the pub this afternoon and a young girl serving behind the bar, had a Magen Dovid necklace on and a hamsa tattoo on her arm. I was so full of admiration for her courage. I am no longer brave enough to wear mine in public but do wear my Hebrew name necklace on the basis many people aren’t familiar with what Hebrew script looks like.

There a long tradition of anti-semitism in the UK, and in western Europe in general. As a child I was very aware of it, and my grandfather originally contributed some of the material now shared on the British Police website http://britishpalestinepolice.org.uk/polhist44.html

It's nothing new here. I really think we're one of the most open and tolerant societies in Western Europe, but let's not pretend this does not exist.

Someone will come along and say, "but if you look at the treatment of Palestinians in the West Bank", then yes I fully agree. It's an appaling system no doubt, and can't be compared to the UK. But there is nothing we can do about that directly, but we can aand should about anti-semetism here in the UK.

@poshsnobtwit

i think the holocaust is your answer.

It happened on European soil in supposedly civilised democratic countries - there is no othering there other than the Jewish heritage ( no matter how historic or diluted) as the victims weren’t immigrants, weren’t degenerate, werent anti social, weren’t uneducated, were contributors, etc ( not that any of those things are justifiable) - there was no other feature behind it other than their Jewish heritage.

And it was an attempt to ‘root’ it out of all European society - this is documented by the Wanssee agreement. Not only were Jewish families identified, the Nazis attempted to ‘map’ the entire genesis of Jewish being in Europe going back centuries. People who had converted, didn’t know of the Jewish roots were all documented.

It’s also really important, imv, we don’t get into a competitive tit for tat across atrocities. I’m not saying for a second that atrocities that happen in Africa are of less importance than atrocities in Europe - just that we assumed that our European societies had developed and established the mechanisms to prohibit them and that is one of the reasons.

It is also obvious to me as a Catholic that our faith sits in a blind spot against Jewish history - there’s a lot I’m learning. The orthodox Churches are the foundation of much intellectual thought and practice in Europe and we have to do the work to remedy the way we have positioned Jews outside of that ( historically).

Cannot the same be said for other nationalities? Yes but an East Asian person has an established identity within their home country ( with exceptions for some people such as Uyghurs, etc) - the uniqueness for Jews is that this isn’t extended in the same way.

Campaign Against Antisemitism in the UK have another announcement in a different case. 👇

Thank you x

Apology accepted

Except this thread is, specifically, about antisemitism. There have even quite a few attempts at derailment so apologies if I have misinterpreted you.

What are you talking about? I responded to a pp's claim about Chinese people. And I'm asking a genuine question about that assertion, it has absolutely nothing to do with antisemitism.

Is that what you take from this thread? Even if the OP was right, are you trying to argue that assertion is to be given more credibility than anti-semitism?

Yes there has been. Also many East Asian students got awful abuse during COVID and were terrified to go out. Muslims in the UK have been the long term scapegoats for practically every single problem, from immigration, housing crisis, terrorism, lack of integration (whereas the ultra orthodox Jewish population's purposeful segregation is facilitated). Black people are profiled in pre-emptive security policies, the Roma are hated absolutely everywhere they go, ditto Travellers. Sadly all minorities, especially (but not always) when they are non white are scapegoated to one extent or another.

And genuine question, the OP said Jewish people have achieved more than any other race alive. Can anyone elaborate on that?

Are you not fully aware that this thread is about anti-semitism?

In the UK, the Attorney General has given the go ahead for a case to be brought against someone prominent for antisemitism. 👇

I said on the previous thread that I found this particular part of the definition odd. The rest of it makes sense but this one appears to stop people from making comparisons that some might find uncomfortable rather than something that is truly anti-Semitic. The fact that there is also the point that says that you can't hold Jews responsible for the actions of the Israeli government seems to make it clear enough that you aren't therefore comparing all Jewish people.

I did find it interesting that posters here are quite happy to say things about Palestinians that would be considered anti-Semitic if they were said about Jews. It's almost like when it's done against other people, it's not as much of a problem.

I thought you don't like the IHRA definition because it says it's antisemitic to compare Israel to Nazi Germany, which you were having great fun doing on a previous thread.

Then don't.