Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women 2?

I think I was clear that this fictional woman would not accept care from a man or a transwoman.

And this is the issue. When we have people claiming that male people are women because they have a GRC and/or the ladyfeelz, women (natal ones) who don’t want care from anyone with a penis are called bigots or transphobes (by the left, mainly).

Using CAPITAL LETTERS is commonly understood to be equivalent to shouting on the internet

No. I'm suggesting JKR choosing to use her platform at this moment to suggest women don't vote Labour might have unintended consequences.

She chose to write that article, it didn't come up in conversation. Criticising that action isn't the same as telling her to shut up

@CassieMaddox
Do you have a link to the actual report?

I think this is the report;
https://gendercriticalwoman.blog/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/Leading-for-all-supporting-trans-non-binary-healthcare-staff-2023.pdf

Exactly this! Make them understand the issue to give them time to change pre-election. I'm going to hold onto my postal vote for a while in case I decide to vote Labour. This may have a positive effect for them.

Actually @hihelenhi I am a massive supporter of JKR and all she has done - I am also a believer in women having their own spaces etc.

What I can't get on board with is the demonisation of labour, when every party holds the same views - other than Reform. What she donated to charity is fantastic but it still doesn't cover the thousands and thousands of women who have been impacted by Tory policies and austerity. I certainly haven't been had - it is possible to support all women and want to vote for labour. I would feel a total fraud and a hypocrite if I voted on a single issue, when for so many women this single issue is on a list behind poverty - feeding kids, paying bills, surviving abuse, SEND/SEMH kids ... and Labour are the only
Party that align with my views on these issues.

Don’t tell a male politician what you want changed before the GE wait until they have mandate then it will work

Not very useful for women

Wheesht, women, wheesht.

“I think all the talk about "super majorities" has made JKR complacent about the potential consequences of her intervention.”

@CassieMaddox I’m puzzled - are you suggesting we cease discussing women’s issues until after the election?

Did you mean to be insufferable and rude or is this just your personality?

My irony meter has exploded with some comments on this thread!

I'm pretty bored of people correcting misrepresentations being labelled (misrepresented, even) as attacks and smears. It's hypocritical at best.

A little more self awareness wouldn't go amiss on here, frankly.

Uh-huh. Nobody is shouting at you, Cassie. And this is, once again, a highly disingenuous response. Hints of DARVO in fact. Why use these tactics? They don't show you in a good light. Interesting though.

I am asking you to stop making false claims about other women's political affiliations. Which you and some others have been doing throughout the threads. That is more than an "opinion", or "disagreeing" with our stance on women's rights. Or can't you tell the difference between "political opinion" and "telling lies about people?" Odd.

Do you have a link to the actual report?

I've never voted for any right wing party in my life and I'm not about to start now. However, I don't feel able to vote for Labour because I cannot trust them on this, and the Greens and Lib Dems are even worse. Which is frustrating, but I genuinely don't feel I can vote with any integrity for anyone who has gone all-in for this crap; it displays a lack of critical thinking of a level that I can't trust that they'll be capable of effectively addressing anything else or looking at facts.

Exactly this.

Why are you shouting at me?
The only people I claim are right wing are people doing and saying right wing things. Actions speak louder than words. And it's usually about GC activists, not posters on here.

it's based on ignorance. You don't get to rewrite people's history for them and make untrue claims about their affiliations. It's propagandist.

This is more of a smear and attack than anything Ive written. I'm as entitled to my opinion as anyone else. If that makes you angry or defensive, that's a you problem.

There was no need to bring "self ID" and TW into the debate. By doing that, you make it seem as though intimate care from a TW is somehow worse than intimate care from a male carer. Let's fix the issue of same sex care being a legal requirement first (which is a real problem, happening today) before diving straight into scenarios about "Sarah the transwoman providing single sex care under self ID" which is hypothetical at this point

@CassieMaddox There is absolutely a need to bring self id and TW into the debate about intimate care because the women who rely on help for their intimate care are being gaslighted and abused because they’re putting men and trans women into the same category; male.

Have a look at this thread from last year, discussing an NHS report that appeared in the telegraph. Read that and tell me if you still can’t see what the issue is. https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4823723-telegraph-patients-may-be-guilty-of-discrimination-if-they-refuse-care-of-transgender-medic-nhs-bosses-told#:~:text=The%2520report%2520goes%2520on%2520to,may%2520result%2520to%2520the%2520patient.%E2%80%9D

I'm worried that it will be like Brexit and Labour won't get a majority, yes. Because either we will end up with a left coalition and then there really will be a threat from self ID.
Or we will end up with more Tories which will fuck us all over.

I think all the talk about "super majorities" has made JKR complacent about the potential consequences of her intervention. Hopefully I'm wrong.

Yes it’s great timing, she got the headlines too

And agree of course women can be anti women’s sex based rights, some Labour MPs included but generally

If you're claiming women who aren't "right wing" are right wing, then yes, you are smearing and yes, it is disingenuous. It has been a common tactic among transactivists, that those of us who've been paying attention have been seeing for YEARS now.

Sorry, but this isn't about you "disagreeing". This is about you actively claiming other people have motivations and beliefs and political affiliations they simply don't have. It's a deliberate smear, and it's based on ignorance. You don't get to rewrite people's history for them and make untrue claims about their affiliations. It's propagandist. Which I'm sure you know really, but please, do carry on telling women who disagree with YOU that they have beliefs they don't.

HTH too, by the way.

Women can also be misogynists, don't forget.

I think this was perfect timing by JKR. Labour can't now say that they weren't aware that this is a huge issue post-election, or believe that everybody voting for them is giving them a green light to go gung ho on wrecking women's rights. It's good that they've seen the groundswell now. Hopefully it gives them pause for thought as to the strength of feeling.

The aim was to get Keir and co to think about what they're doing. Given the 'super majority' being predicted by some Labour supporters, I'm not sure why they're worried about the timing. After all, we're told on MN all the time (even within this thread) that barely anybody cares about it. If that's the case, what does it matter what JKR said? Or are people worried that actually it is a huge concern for many, and it could influence the result? It can't be both!

So many women exercising the opinion that none of us should have certain rights or safeguarding because you don't care about them.

This is how we know this is not a human rights campaign.

As ever, some people’s comprehension skills are lacking 😬

I'm unclear where your evidence is that she's "forgotten", given how many years she's spent donating money and talking about exactly these causes. You appear to have "forgotten" quite a bit yourself. How convenient for you.

It seems some of you are determined to demonise her whatever she does. Highly disingenuous. And once again, imbuing her with motivations she clearly doesn't have. You've been had.

Posters disagreeing with you isn't a smear, or disingenuous. It's women exercising their own right to an opinion. HTH.

Ha he still can only here old Tony on this issue

He spent so long saying no one’s talking about it.