Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women 2?

You find it disgusting that people want to protect children from irreversible medical harm and retain spaces where women have privacy from men? I find that a really odd use of the word disgusting.

OMG, puberty blockers work when they are stopped to allow puberty to take place at the ‘normal’ age. Seriously, can you do some proper research before making these nonsensical statements

Puberty blockers have been used safely for years on children reaching puberty at an early age to delay it. No one seemed to mind when the “normal” kids needed them.

@Runor

”But transwomen are men. As soon as we cannot exclude transwomen from female spaces etc, we cannot exclude any men. This makes things worse for women”

Exactly!

Why aren't Labour the party of women's rights?

ok.
Doesn’t make them right. Doesn’t make any of this right.

The attitudes on this thread are disgusting.

But the minority group in question are men.

We agree that men are the problem.

Why should a small group of men be exempt from that principle just because they say they are not men?

I didn't edit anything. The original is there. My brother shouldn’t be allowed in women’s spaces because he is a man. And women can’t tell the baddies from the goodies, despite me being confident he’s a goodie as I know him. As best anyone can know another person.

Other women don’t know. So they all have to stay out.

If you can’t get that by now I can’t help you.

There is a chance I misunderstood your post

It was perfectly clear. Other people pointed out your self own too.

Not at all but when I hear the phrase “ a party which holds the female half of the population in complete contempt.” I automatically think of the party in power who have systematically made life harder for women

@Raquelos

”I think, for me, the problem is more fundamental even than the issue of women's rights. It's the absolute lack of trust that the Labour front bench won't roll over for the next vocal minority that manages to gain a foothold as they did on this,”

I agree with this also.

Can you say how this nuance works in practise?

Where might men have access v where they would not

We'd all like male 'attitudes' towards women 'addressed'. What is equally important is that women's hard-won protections are not eroded by trans identified men who retain their male patterns of violence and sexual offending.

@SergeantDawkins

Women's sports are not there to protect male egos, that is just total and utter tripe. Other than equestrianism, women generally lose out to men in mixed sex competition and single sex competitions are about fairness and female safety.

Almost no one actually thinks trans women are the same as biological women. It's thoroughly weird that you don't seem to believe in biological differences, or their significance, but you seem to believe in a magic woman feeling that all women share. My sex is just a fact about me - it's an important fact, but frankly it really isn't a feeling. If I only needed to say I identified as a man to access the benefits of maleness, such as being given more respect in meetings and a pay rise, I'd do it in a heartbeat and you could point to the fact that I hate shopping, would happily wear trousers or shorts for the rest of my life and like football and darts, as evidence of my "male essence". It's just regressive gender bollocks if it's not about material biological reality.

There is a chance I misunderstood your post before you went back to edit the typos.

Your point is that your brother shouldn’t be allowed in women’s spaces in case he is a predator?

I’d like to see the issue dealt with a little nuance not just “ban trans women from everything”.

No one thinks they should be banned from everything, just things that are for women. All the nuance needed.

Because we refuse to deal with the real issue which is men’s attitudes to women.

And nothing sums up mens attitude to women more then when they believe they can be us.

Transwomen are men.

I have a different point of view to you. If you choose to interpret my posts as you've stated that doesn't mean I have no right to say that my priorities differ from yours. I'm sure you wouldn't want to silence women who disagree with you.

And as for sports - most were designed to test the extreme of male ability, there aren’t many where women can genuinely compete with men

But transwomen are men. As soon as we cannot exclude transwomen from female spaces etc, we cannot exclude any men. This makes things worse for women

Uunderthinker what a great idea, thankyou!

I’d like to see the issue dealt with a little nuance not just “ban trans women from everything”.

I’d like the men in power to address men’s attitudes and behaviour towards women. Including their own.

Because we refuse to deal with the real issue which is men’s attitudes to women.

Many of which are embodied in the "trans rights" movement's attitudes to women.

Well you do you. I couldn’t think of a more waste of my time popping up on threads to continually diminish women or reduce their experiences , or continually tell them ‘you’re wrong! And hate transpeople.

I'm male but happy to "go in pairs" to the (male) toilet like many women do, if that made any TW friends/colleagues I was with feel safer.