Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women 2?

Absolutely no one is saying that TW aren't people

They arent women however. I know that, they know that, you know that. It's basic biological fact. I wonder why you're denying this? Why lie?

Trans identified men are men who identify as transgender. You are calling them trans women.

I’ve said plenty actually, but really it comes down to the fact that trans women are still people and this thread and the previous one is full of horrible bullying attitudes and sweeping statements and judgements. How long can one argue against fear and ignorance?

Oh dear. You’re not skint, are you?

Out of interest, are these women you’re dealing with poor and/or working class? If so, are you seeing any connections between their circumstances, the concerns that they voice to you and the lack of any significant trans/non binary presence in their community?

It sounds like you’re taking their apparent lack of concern about women’s rights and single sex spaces as evidence that they don’t think it’s at all important, when these women are more concerned with getting through the week. Feeding their kids takes priority. They haven’t got time to be pontificating over gender identities, they’re more worried about paying the gas bill. But if you think they don’t care about single sex spaces when they need to, take them into that world (a middle class university campus, for instance) and watch what happens.

Well, firstly this is a licensed use, which use as a puberty blocker is not. And secondly there is some considerable concern about the long term effects even of this relatively short duration of licensed use.

😀

trans men or trans women?

it has everything to do with gay men when we are literally replicating the propaganda of 1980s about a new set of vulnerability people

Not all transwomen.

What's disgusting? Honestly, this is baffling. Can you point to what has been said that's 'disgusting'?

You are wrong. There was lots of concern about their use. Some women who were prescribed PB as children have faced long term medical problems. Doctors talk about this with parents.

But when used for PP, the conditions is clear, and not self diagnosed, and the children are on the drugs for the shortest term possible, often only till the age of 8 or so. Their puberty is genuinely paused for a short while, not an attempt to stop completely.

Ok emoji hour. Can you say anything about what you want?

You’ve posted many times on the two threads castigating women but you haven’t actually put anything forward. With all the posts this could have been some of that

If you give an example of how this nuance works maybe we can see what you mean

Or is it an impossibility in reality hence the avoidance plus emoji

Not heard any more from Madigan since the sexual assault allegations.

OK, to add on the bit I assumed was well known…. But puberty blockers cause a great deal of harm when their use is continued through puberty, because then puberty never properly happens. This means that full adult bone density is never achieved, full sexual development is never achieved, and parts of the brain never fully develop. This is not what I would want for any child.

Yeah, and my mind boggles at your comprehension. Transwomen are as much potential predators as gay men, white men, straight men, men of differing races, and on we go.

Because of their one common denominator -
They. Are. Men.

That aren’t a sacred caste absolved of being able to cause harm because they deem themselves trans.

Do men say it? I’ve never seen or heard a man say that.

Doesn’t make them right. Doesn’t make any of this right.

It doesn't make them right, because what people think doesn't have any bearing on what actually is right.

They are right though.

Trans identified men are men. A higher proportion of trans identified men are sexual predators than average (based on conviction stats for UK prisons). This is nothing to do with gay men.

Yes treating something with nuance definitely means trying to resolve all factors in a mumsnet post 🤦🏻‍♀️

Trans women are not predators any more than gay men are.

And again, gay men aren't expecting to use women's spaces.

I know 😩

honestly all of my friends who think i have no self control should see my posts in here. I am so restrained!

We said the same thing. They are used to delay puberty.

I'm assuming you've made that point because you think female representation in politics matters.

How would you feel if 50% of the shadow cabinet were transwomen and 50% were men? Do you still think that would represent equality for female representation in politics? The Labour Party (and the Libdems) do.

Lily Madigan was elected as women's officer in a constituency Labour Party even though he is male. Lily then proceeded to smear and bully women of the executive committee in an adjacent constituency when they raised objections to a man being able to stand as a women's officer.

I do appreciate your point @PupInAPram that people are generally looking at a whole host of issues when deciding on who to vote for. The cost of living crisis has had a huge impact on many of the people I see through work as well.
I do wonder though at how much money has been spent over the years supporting this alleged fringe issue, which apparently only effects 0.1% of the population ? how much did it cost to fund the Tavistock clinic, would that money have been better spent supporting the majority of female autistic patients in other ways ? All the money spent in the NHS and Education ?
I do largely lay the blame at the door of the Conservatives on this, it was under their watch after all, but does that make it wrong to expect better from Labour ?

Dawkins, you say the attitudes on this thread are disgusting, while not being able to provide counter arguments to demonstrate this. I wonder why?!

Have you not read any of my posts? My entire point is that men are a risk, the problem is men’s attitudes to women, men’s behaviour and the patriarchy’s reluctance to do anything about it.
Trans women are not predators any more than gay men are. But we refuse to do anything about misogyny in our society and instead focus our outrage on minority out groups.