Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women 2?

@DrNickedMaCorpus exactly and why do we always have to budge up? Because it's all about making them feel comfortable and valid and in some cases, attractive. There ! I said it. Some men who say that they are trans women are not suffering from gender dysporia. I feel for the ones who do genuinely but there are some who enjoy dressing as women for sexual pleasure. ( And this post will last two minutes). Why should women as members of a functioning society have to accommodate this ? Men can deal with this in the spaces allocated to their sex .

It's also the unfairness.

Transwomen say they don't want to use men's services and spaces because of safety, privacy, and dignity. So everyone says - fine, use women's spaces.

Women say they don't want to use spaces with men in them because of safety, privacy, and dignity. So everyone calls them bigots and transphobes.

How come some men get to say who they share spaces with, but women aren't allowed to?

I am interested in how these problematic people suddenly become not a problem the minute they say 3 special little words?

I agree with you OP 💯 - I live in a high crime area with so much poverty - this issue is so far from my radar, I literally can't worry about this in my life.

I live in a similar place. I grew up in poverty and I’m only a couple of steps away from it now. And it’s so close on my radar it’s terrifying. My neighbour a few doors down on the left is in and out of a woman’s refuge because of domestic violence (as were we when I was growing up). I want her to be able to stay there without having to share a room with a man. There’s a woman over the back who’s obviously dealing and I’m pretty sure will be going back inside in the not too distant future. I want her to share a cell with someone who isn’t capable of making her pregnant. My mum’s elderly neighbour, who is very prim and proper and who would be humiliated at a male giving her intimate care, is in hospital after a stroke. I want her to feel safe and comfortable. The local kids don’t have the same opportunities that richer kids have. If a boy takes a place on a girls team, there is no other option for that girl. Mummy won’t be driving her to gymnastics because swimming hasn’t worked out.

I’m not expecting you to drop all your worries about the things you have to get through. But please understand that it’s not about a fear of hordes of trans women coming over the horizon, demanding to use the ladies loos in the local pub. It’s about ensuring women in our financial bracket, with our limited resources and our limited options, our inability to fund private care for our mums and aunties, etc, don’t lose the few rights we do have.

But there is one solution.

Understand gender identity as a private matter, let people dress as they wish and iron or not iron the shirts, or whatever runs their private sense of identity.

Keep biological sex the only thing which is relevant when someone else is involved (patient, client, sport competitor, co-inmate).

Simple

That's a complete misrepresentation of most women's position here.

I meant I loathe the ideology that if you just build a wall around women (especially good virtuous women) and don’t let anyone near them then bad things won’t happen to them. People have been trying that for centuries and it’s gross

The pathetic attempts at somehow “winning” by claiming I don’t know about this specific example isn’t really that effective when I’m happy to admit I don’t know.

i dont think anyone has mentioned winning apart from you

its not a completion, there are a lot of women on here who feel very strongly about this

The examples you’re giving are examples of exactly what I meant yeah

I don’t know. Genuinely. Is there specialist care, are some people trained in certain things, what if it’s an emergency and there’s only a man (or trans woman) available, I don’t know. The pathetic attempts at somehow “winning” by claiming I don’t know about this specific example isn’t really that effective when I’m happy to admit I don’t know.

One point i keep making is that there is not one solution that can be applied to all situations. It’s going to take some amount of effort and consideration in every field to make sure everyone is safe and comfortable.

SO WHY ARE LABOUR FUCKING FIXATED ON IT?

Disingenuous as fuck. What you mean is you don’t want to hear any inconvenient truths.

What are the expert qualifications required to understand that severely disabled women and girls (and the elderly) deserve the right to same sex intimate care?

This.

No one would ever dream of telling black or gay people to think of the NHS and climate change if their rights were being eviscerated.

In fact we were told racism was a pandemic, when people gathered in their thousands during the most draconian period of Covid restrictions, following the death of George Floyd.

Misogyny - the deepest and oldest ‘pandemic’ of them all - never gets a look in.

Remember misogyny hasn’t been made a hate crime, despite leading to more violence and murder than all other types of bigotry combined, because not only would it have to include our appropriators, but because it would keep the police so busy around the clock that they would never have time to deal with anything else.

But women are the only group who will happily vote for their own demise

No

it is simultaneously really important and not important at all

With all those issues going on, shouldn’t the madness of gender ideology be far from Labour’s radar too?

I’m also interested in the stance of ‘problematic single issue voters’. I’ve said this before, but for many TRAs they won’t actually vote Labour because they don’t go far enough into trans rights for them - so are they a problem too? Are the many pro-Palestine supporters who refuse to vote for Labour due to KS’ lack of comments a problem? Is it all single issues and all sides the vote or not?

ive asked before and never received an answer

If one of the parties was going to revoke same sex marriages but was really good on absolutely everything else would it be ok for me to NOT vote for them on that one issue

but thats a problem yeah?

Anyone who thinks the Tories are feminists and are planning to protect women's rights have got a shock coming. This is just a convenient culture war they like to stoke as a way to have a go at Labour.

Rishi Sunak isn't bothered about anything but his bank balance. See how bothered he is about women's rights when he continues the privatisation of the NHS, does nothing about climate change, sends our kids off for national service, starts blaming disabled people for not being able to work and starts issuing vouchers instead of payments (in the middle of an ongoing pandemic that he's also doing nothing about btw). Then there's some Tories who want to take us out of the ECHR - what will that do for women's rights do you think? Some are talking about bringing back the death penalty - helpful to women's rights? A resounding no.

Don't trust them. Vote them OUT.

Oh do give over. Transwomen can compete in any sport they like (competing with men), go to swimming pools (as long as they don't use the women's changing rooms or attend women-only sessions). And try on clothes? Are you serious? Of course they can try on clothes, IN THE MEN'S CHANGING ROOMS.

But you didn't say what you meant, did you? You want transwomen to have the right to do things that other MEN are not permitted to do.

The biggest problem transwomen have is their own maleness. It causes them great misery and in some cases to have complicated, difficult surgery and take lots of medications.

Women also have a problem with the maleness of transwomen, because transwomen are being encouraged to go into spaces where women are vulnerable, as if they were just another woman, but transwomen are male (see above), and maleness, full stop (not just in transwomen) is correlated statistically with increased risk to women.

What we have now is a situation where, because transwomen themselves can't bear to think about or refer to their own maleness, other people, including women, aren't allowed to either. Women therefore aren't allowed to describe this particular subset of males as males, even though they themselves and everyone around them know perfectly well that they are males.

In lots of ordinary minor social situations there's no need to refer to the maleness of transwomen even if it's blindingly obvious, and it's courteous not to. But when making decisions for women as a whole, e.g. about who should be allowed into prisons with us, who can compete with us in sport and so on, we have to be able to use accurate, truthful language and describe this particular set of male people as male.

SergeantDawkins - I get it, years ago I used to think that calling a transwoman male was the worst and most horrible insult, and surely no one should do that?! But the problem is that not being able to accurately describe a male person as male puts women in a very difficult position. The reasoning behind single-sex spaces staying single sex is to protect women, specifically from dangerous males. The reasoning behind transwomen staying out of those spaces is not because they're trans but because they're male. No amount of saying "but transwomen are women" erases that maleness, much as they wish it would.

I don’t understand this persistence that anger towards Labour’s stance on women’s rights means voting Tories or Reform. Many (not all) of the women here have been disenfranchised precisely because they are left leaning voters. This single issue might stop women voting for Labour but it isn’t going to make up all jump over to the right wing parties. Over my voting years I’ve either voted Labour or Lib Dems (but they are so far gone regarding women’s rights I won’t be going near then).

I agree with the stance that JKR is actually trying to get Labour to engage and throw their support in with women now, rather than trying to convince potential Labour voters to go elsewhere.

I’m also interested in the stance of ‘problematic single issue voters’. I’ve said this before, but for many TRAs they won’t actually vote Labour because they don’t go far enough into trans rights for them - so are they a problem too? Are the many pro-Palestine supporters who refuse to vote for Labour due to KS’ lack of comments a problem? Is it all single issues and all sides the vote or not?

You're a champion for the vulnerable but only certain types of vulnerable people.

It's not a complicated question and doesn't require any particular expertise.

Do you think women should be able to ask for a female (of the xx chromosome variety) carer/HCP for intimate care/procedures?

It doesn’t affect 3 million children living in poverty, 8 million in NHS waiting lists, rape being effectively decriminalised, overflowing prisons, the threat of sending people to Rwanda, filthy rivers … the list of stuff it doesn’t affect is endless.

But you do have an opinion, don’t you? You think women who want same sex care are disgusting.

edited for clarity

It's not a single issue vote either as it affects so much more.... Sports healthcare, safeguarding.

@SergeantDawkins If you’d indulge me, I’d really like to know what a ‘woman’ is in terms of gender and how would I know if I am one? I saw the ‘person who irons’ description and I don’t iron so I’m suddenly quite confused.

And if ‘female’ is the word for sex, is there a word to differentiate between other animals - say like calling a female sheep a ewe. What would we call a female adult human?