Starmer, JKR, what's most important to most women 2?

Have you read the Labour policy?

They want to get rid of the panel and have a single doctor approve GRC applications. This doctor will be a specialist in 'gender', highly likely to be practising an 'affirmative ' approach.

It will be the effective introduction of self ID.

Did Wayne Couzins have a GRC? so the danger to women comes from men, a lack of public services and very poor law enforcement.

Yes, the danger comes from men. Letting them change legal sex more easily and therefore free reign in women's spaces - how on earth could that be positive for women's safety?

I don’t want another second of Tory rule. I have never voted for them in my 40 years of being able to vote.

I still think Labour are, at best, hopelessly muddled on women’s rights, and agree with everything JKR said.

Labours actual stated policy is that they want to simplify the process, which is identical to the Tories policy, but Labour will have a consultation, after which there may be changes or they wont be.

So why are you making up things and saying a GRC will be issued after a Zoom call, how can we have a reasoned argument when people lie?

Labour's policy is that a GRC can be signed off by one GP. That's not lying.

So we shouldn't have the ambition to improve things?

The issues you raise have come after 14 years of the tories yet you want another 5 years of these people?

You purport to be in favour of women's rights????

Well, you re just spouting the usual scare story Tory line.

Labours actual stated policy is that they want to simplify the process, which is identical to the Tories policy, but Labour will have a consultation, after which there may be changes or they wont be.

So why are you making up things and saying a GRC will be issued after a Zoom call, how can we have a reasoned argument when people lie?

Did Wayne Couzins have a GRC? so the danger to women comes from men, a lack of public services and very poor law enforcement.

No they aren't.

They think that women who want a word for themselves or any single sex spaces are horrible bigots and dinosaurs who hoard rights.

As for dealing with the backlog of rape cases, I'll believe it when I see it. You can't just magic up extra money, courtrooms and judges. Then where will they put these convicted rapists? Women's prisons?

Or men in women's prisons?

@thefireplace

We as a society aren't providing single sex care and the Tories Brexit fuck up has led to many men from SE Asia coming here to do care work.

was that a sneaky attempt at getting someone to indulge in some racism so you can prove that Sturgeon was right when she said “there are people who have opposed this bill that cloak themselves in women's rights to make it acceptable, but just as they're transphobic you'll also find that they're deeply misogynist, often homophobic, possibly some of them racist as well.”

You don't work at Aston uni by any chance?

Do you mind men in female sports?

I'm not GC and I don't give a toss which toilet or changing room a transwoman uses.

I do care about the near criminal neglect of our public services, the poverty that is getting worse every year, rising homelessness and the lack of affordable housing though, so I will be tactically voting LD as that gives the best chance of ousting the woefully useless oxygen thief that is my Tory MP.

Men’s rights are really important and women’s rights are not important at all. Plus ça change…

It isn't painting 'trans' people as anything.

It is asking why different rules apply for men if they say they are women than would be applied for men who don't.

Not been keeping up with the thread but I thought this would be a good place to share the Woman's Hour election debate - they had the candidates explain party positions in more detail at least https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/l0056ntv/election-2024-womans-hour-election-debate

This is not a question of social policy. It’s a very simple question. Let me put a scenario to you.

Ellie is 36 and has a spinal cord injury. She uses a wheelchair all of the time, lives alone and semi-independently, with carers visiting several times a day to help with her personal care. This means removing her clothing and her being in a very vulnerable position. Before her accident, she was raped by someone she thought was her friend.

Ellie requests that her care is undertaken by a woman, not a man, because she doesn’t want anyone with a penis anywhere near her while she’s unclothed. Does this make Ellie a bigot?

Ellie requests that her care not undertaken by a transwoman, because she doesn’t want anyone with a penis anywhere near her while she is unclothed. Does this make Ellie a bigot?

Exactly. The double standards are absolutely outrageous. Especially as women are far more at risk from men than men are from other men.

Alternatively, 'gender' is creating opportunities for predators to abuse loopholes. See, for example, sex offenders using a GRC process to evade DBS checks.

This seems like a very confused post.

So you agree that GRCs are easy to get? Under Labour they will become even easier. Any man who likes will be able to change his 'legal sex' with the sign off of one GP.

So that's all it takes. Quick zoom with a friendly Doctor and women's spaces will be there for the taking for any man who wants them.

If you think that’s what we want or think you have been massively misinformed. Do you understand the concepts of safeguarding and risk minimisation?

Care providers are absolute chancers and resources led (so short of staff) and I have no doubt that if self ID is passed, we will get the women (and possibly men) who are uncomfortable with carers of the opposite sex but who identify as trans doing intimate care

Nonsense.

Around 8000 men have a GRC and any man (or woman) wanting to abuse a vulnerable person can apply to work in care.

Men who want a GRC just have to apply, its a 96% success rate.

You are also going down the route that all Trans people are abusers, rapists, criminals etc etc

Scaremongering of the worst kind.

We as a society aren't providing single sex care and the Tories Brexit fuck up has led to many men from SE Asia coming here to do care work.

TBH we aren't in many cases, not even providing care for the vulnerable for anyone.

Where are all the women supposed to come from?

Who has presided over the collapse in social care? clue - its not Labour.

@SergeantDawkins Well I can answer about care . For the past twenty or even twenty five years, most care models have followed person centred care as opposed to the medical model of the past.Everything that has arose since has came from this. Plainly put , it's about treating people as individuals and not objects like used to happen ( routine bed baths, getting all older people up at a set time every day , put to bed at night same time etc ). It's needs led versus resourses led and is a challenge under current times but it's the basic blooming principles of caring for people and when we force a someone of either sex to be washed or support to the toilet by someone of the opposite sex against their will, we really have failed that person's care needs. As for not having someone available, yes that can happen very rarely but a planning is a wonderful thing and there does tend to be people who will help in emergencies I have found. Care providers are absolute chancers and resources led (so short of staff) and I have no doubt that if self ID is passed, we will get the women (and possibly men) who are uncomfortable with carers of the opposite sex but who identify as trans doing intimate care . They will not complain because they don't want to be seen as difficult and they don't want to hurt the person's feelings (why would you?) and that isn't right. It's about those who need care's dignity, safety & privacy.

Women are ignored, men not

Maybe @SergeantDawkins can say why I think there was a post on ‘lived experience’ earlier

Why when reading posts from women do they prioritise men?

Women who disagree with me are probably lying?
Is that you Eden?

@CassieMaddox
Double standards. Believe Sunak (despite the fact he's head of a party full of liars). Don't believe Starmer.

It's pure lefty hating, not to do with womens rights at all.

Not lefty hating. I still just about call myself a lefty. For me one reason I trust Starmer less on this is because he is in a materially different position to Sunak. Labour relies on a activist base where a large faction are fully TWAW and see this as a big issue. Sunak doesn't have that same pressure from his members or voters. Starmer always needs to triangulate some position that doesn't alienate TRAs while also not appearing crazy to the general public or tanking the GC element of Labour even more. You might see the results of this as a balanced compromise but I see them as a shifty and illogical fudge.