To think that the majority of trans people are neurodivergent

It’s still an all out insult. Some have tried to reclaim it in recent years, but they haven’t a clue what they are talking about. It’s a disgusting slur and I find it horribly offensive and upsetting

@verygrumpy I absolutely know and accept the majority of not all of ND people have experienced many many difficulties, prejudice and indeed trauma. The cessation of using 'disorder' is by no means meant to deny that. Rather the thinking by the many autistic people who take offense at this description is the idea that they are ' disordered' or that autism is something to treat , ( which it very clearly isnt, although obviously some conditions that may coexist can be) rather than simply a different way of being. ( I'm just trying to adopt the language of a movement of autistic people ) Someone likened this to me as the difference say, between android and apple being different operating systems.
If this argument is followed the suggestion would be that the problems that you and your family experienced did not lie with you, rather the world around you.

Oh sorry, I think I worded that in a confusing way. I think they are different but I think the way they intersect now makes categorising people neatly into straight, gay, bi complicated, so it's easier to say "queer". For example, someone might be non-binary and only be attracted to female gendered people of either sex. They're not gay or bi, because they themselves don't think of themselves as male or female. But probably that's too specific to tell someone casually, and over the top, so if the topic comes up they might say they're "queer".

How… how do you think development in utero actually works?

It’s this kind of wildly inaccurate thinking that fills up TikTok and makes isolated, vulnerable and different-feeling kids like they’ve found the truth about themselves, because this is sCieNTifiC fAcTs so great, they can fling themselves into it no matter the physical and psychological cost to themselves long-term.

We need to reassure all traumatised and/or ND kids that they can fancy who they want, play with the toys they want, dress the way they want and NONE of their bodies are “wrong”. What an absolutely monstrous thing to teach children is a “fact”.

Honestly it all sounds like a huge clusterfuck 🤣 who decided ok yes let's go with that word and everyone said yeah let's do it - I'm going to start calling myself that too 🤣 it's honestly crazy to me. It's akin to the word 'spastic' that was a genuine word, mostly used as a terrible insult in the 90s and then phased out rightly so.

It's trendy, so people who are easily influenced and get swept up in trends will believe themselves to be trans. They'd be emos in an earlier generation.

The same argument can be used for some racial slurs. Some people still find them offensive but the majority have reclaimed certain words. I'd argue that all these previously offensive terms be binned but it's not me reclaiming them.

It doesn’t. You can be offended. Doesn’t mean anyone gets to censor it.

I don’t use the word. I don’t like it. But my opinion does not trump someone else who chooses to use it. I can voice my opinion, I’m certainly not reporting it to mumsnet and calling it homophobic!

Is gender identity the same as sexual attraction?
If they are related, aren't you worried that young gay and lesbian people are transitioning to avoid homophobia? Why are so many gay and lesbian people actively against trans ideology?

If they aren't, why are they lumped together?

100% relate to this. Thank you @GruffalosGirl

I heard a quote today, there are as many reasons for being trans as there are trans people.

So there is many reasons that people are uncomfortable about their born selves.

The answer is to address why society is suddenly saying you can be the opposite sex, no sex, or some other thing.

there are only two sexes for good reason, the propagation of the human race.

There are also natural gay people. There is no link to being gay and being ND.

Sex is a fact, gender none conformity is fine, saying you are a woman or a man when you are not is just illogical.

And it is causing a shed load of problems for women's rights and Gay peoples rights.

Trans ideology is a manifestation of a broken society where children fear being sexed adults.

Older people like, say, your boss who's in their 40s/50s/60s?
It's fine to offend and in fact traumatise gay people because they are older than you?
Is it also fine to do the same for Black people who were called "N word" at school in the 70s?

What do you mean? You can identify as trans without being confused about your gender?

I don’t know the stats but every trans person I’ve met has also been autistic

Yes, 100% same for kids I know here. All autistic.

I get this, but the LGBTQ people of my generation all seem to call themselves queer. I think it's because it's too much of a mess to think up terms to specify where on the gender / sexual attraction spectrum they fit. Perhaps they should have come up with a new word, but also as someone who is (mostly) straight but invested in supporting LGBTQ rights, it feels like the best term to use about someone I know personally is the term that they prefer to be used for themselves. I'd never say "queer" about someone who didn't use that term for themselves, mind.

By the way I'm trans affirmative.

Is that an unnecessarily complicated way of saying you are trans?

Please could you show those stats? I’m reasonably sure that stats have shown trans people are much less likely to be victims of violence per capita than women, and the vast majority of ‘attacks’ are self-reported events like mis-gendering or being asked why they’re in women’s toilets. (But happy to be corrected if anyone has accurate stats the other way.)

Older people will literally be offended by anything and everything that is slightly different to the world they grew up in so actually no a few people moaning about queer being reclaimed because it meant something different back in their day isn’t going to stop me iding as queer. Language has developed as it does with time that’s literally all there is to it

I have ADHD. As a child and teen I never felt I was a proper girl. It wasn't because of having traditional male clothing or interest likes, I was actually pretty feminine, but males and females are socialised completely differently still, and being someone with neurodivergent behaviour can leave you ostracised a lot more from female groups as the female socialisation just doesn't take the same. I think it's this that makes trans much more common in people who are neurodivergent.

I blurt things out, I interrupt, I forget and lose important things, as a child I was a risk taker, impulsive, bossy and argumentative. I don't have object permanence for both things and people like others do and I struggle with emotional regulation. Female social groups were a lot harder to navigate. There was much more talk of feelings and having to remember and consider how other people felt. There seemed to be a lot of drama and upset that didn't make sense to me. There seemed to be lots of unspoken rules I couldn't quite get a handle on, and I was often considered rude, because I didn't understand conversation in the same way and was quite blunt.

Boys were a lot easier to be with, they found the things I did funny and were more likely to join in, they liked talking about things like tv shows or random stuff rather than feelings. They didn't judge as much when I said something blunt, and would either challenge me in the moment or let it go. Interacting with them caused me less anxiety. For years I used to say to DH I didn't know how to do girl. I still feel like I'm not as good at being a woman as others are, and I'm not great at maintaining female relationships.

I absolutely would've believed I was trans if it had been a thing I was exposed to while I was younger, because as far as I was concerned, my brain and behaviour was like all the males around me and the women felt like they were different to me, a bit like a different nationality. I now know that's just because I have ADHD, and my brain works differently, but for years it made no sense to me why I couldn't just think and behave like the other girls could and I felt isolated and broken.

Just because you can say, be or call yourself something doesn't mean you should.
There are a lot of people on this thread saying queer is a slur that it is offensive and hurts them to hear, then there others saying oh it's ok we're taking it back, but it's not ok is it, if you as a self identifying nb queer were called by your correct sex pronoun you'd be screaming from the rooftops about how offensive it was and literally ruined your life etc, so why is someone who finds the word queer offensive told that their feelings don't matter?
Taking it back my fat arse!

50/50 on this I'm neurodivergent I've always known what I am I'm inflexible in that area but mostly accepting of peoples life choices my dd is also neurodivergent she totally believes twaw genuinely believes that if everyone got genetic testing we would all be surprised at how many women with penis there are out there (doesn't seem to vocal about the men without a penis she is scathing about them believes them to be inauthentic) ds neurodivergent doesn't believe at all finds it peculiar (like me) that anyone could ever be confused or uncomfortable with their birth sex ds3 just doesn't give a hoot quite frankly he is quite severely autistic if he sees a "man" wearing a dress it is a man wearing a dress he quite literally says it how he sees it kudos if they pass but if they don't he calls it

Very few. Who has surgery for a laugh? I'm sure there's some older men who see it as a way of enacting whatever sexual fetish they have, or avoiding prison with men. But if we focus on the people who are being genuine (the majority, I think) then these have some form of GD. The thousand pound question, of course, is why do they have GD.

What absolute bollocks.

Ok but that's not answering my question is it? What does it actually mean and who is saying it and why. When for a very long time is was said as a means to hurt people as an insult?