To think that the majority of trans people are neurodivergent

@Pantaloons99 I thought the opposite was more acceptable, as in 'I have autism' not 'I am autistic' ie the condition doesn't define the person.

Read up on queer theory. I mean I wouldn't recommend it tbh but it will explain why people are using queer now. Many LGB people don't like the terminology. Many straight people seem to think it makes them seem edgy.

I'm autistic. There is a massive overlap with trans which I suspect is mostly due to misappropriating how it feels and what it means to be autistic. Sex stereotypes are largely ridiculous. There isn't an inner gender essence.

Don't know about the link with neuro diversity.

What I would say though if that the trans community is probably very welcoming to vulnerable people who feel like outsiders and desperately want acceptance and a way to feel special and valued. I attended an on-line Pride seminar at work recently that was all about accepting identities, by which it meant gender identities. First impressions were of a very warm group - all smiles and kindness, swarms of hearts bubbling about the screen, talk of inclusion. A lonely, troubled person would certainly be drawn to it.

I do wonder if the increase in trans has partly come about because of the crazy pink blue marketing that the younger generation had to put up with. Walking down toys r us, pink or blue aisles, I hated it as a parent, but what effect has it had on those that sensibly realised they werent just one colour/stereotype?

Many many years ago, before these discussions, I watched a research programme about babies in the womb. It said that man's sperm sent a gender message; early on in pregnancy this triggered physical effects on the mother, but if her body did not respond, then the physical attributes of the child could be at variance to the brain gender. I think it also worked the other way around too. So trans is actually an attribute of pre-natal development? Desire to be the other gender is actually the brain trying to get the body to be correct to itself. Don't hear about this, but it would help with attitudes to children who wish to delay puberty if brain gender could be actually identified, do you think? I do think that perhaps it might not be neuro-divergence, but a societal reaction to the mis-match. We still have a society that expects girls to be quiet, compliant and calm, whereas "boys will be boys" is still seen as acceptable. I still see girls being given ADHD drugs for the same behaviours that we accept as normal in boys.

😂😂 I assume you mean get away from the mens prison and enjoy the womens?

sex-based stereotypes are very regressive at the moment. It makes sense to me that girls with ASD conflate not feeling like they’re being a girl “correctly” with actually being a boy

I get it. I work in men's prisons and the trans in there have all been rapists. I think they want to get away from what they were and to start again

yes, its obvious when you are allowed to think about it!

I did some (NHS) autism training the other day and it said that a high proportion of trans people are also autistic. So I would think they're not just basing that on statement on guesswork and there actually is some evidence.

But I do wonder if its the other way round in that autistic people are more likely to be trans.

I hope you are not ignorant enough to think being sexually abused does NOT lead to gender dysphoria!

There are plenty of women who have trans identified as men following sexual abuse. Its obvious why when you think about it, removing all traces of their femininity etc, especially if they are ND or gay.

Not one of the people saying yay I use queer about myself on this thread is actually a gay man, I don't think. They are the only people who can "reclaim". Everyone else is appropriating.

@nocoolnamesleft thanks for understanding my point.
I should mention that I don't think ND people are more easily swayed into something not right for them because of the difficulty with changes during puberty, but also it is pertinent to mention that hyperfocus and research underpins a lot of the decisions some of us make. ....

Sorry, hyuok was a troll - I’ve zapped their posts so there are some holes in the thread…

Absolutely. I would argue that, struggling with change being such a common component of ASD, that what might be termed puberty distress could basically be considered a normal developmental phase amongst the neurodiverse. I really remember how distressing it was to go through those changes.

The same argument can be used for some racial slurs. Some people still find them offensive but the majority have reclaimed certain words.

Can we all use them then? Even people who they don't actually apply to and have never had them used as a vicious slur against them?

@hyuok there is very little evidence for a 'male' or 'female' brain - differences between individuals of a gender are greater than between the genders. See Gina Rippon (academic)'s book for a summary of the scientific literature.

Have you heard of 'autigender'? That's what makes the most sense to my autistic teen, they are not specifically traditional male or female, but present as autistic first then some gender features.

One aspect for some autistic people (as a PP mentioned) was the different way they feel sensations - inside and outside the body. So proprioception (where my body is in space) is perceived differently (as far as anyone can measure), and other senses are affected. I can believe that this leads to a combination of misapprehension and worry about different bodily sensations. Combine this with (still) lots of stereotyped views of what is male or female could lead people to think their bodies are 'wrong', whereas as many PPs have mentioned there are many other explanations.

Can I just throw in a point I haven't seen mentioned here. In a neurotype that typically struggles with change, is there no insight into how hormones/periods/bodily changes during puberty impact the prevelance of those beginning to explore whether they are trans? I know many ND individuals who have struggled with changes during puberty...

oh for sure there are those who believe that they are trans who are not in any way militant. But no-one is born in the wrong body, it is not a benign belief system, and no matter how pleasant or vulnerable some of gender ideology's adherents, it still isn't true. we shouldn't feel compelled to deny reality for the benefit of the nicer people. sorry I'm not feeling very articulate- I just feel it's the final hurdle back to reality- we need to accept that none of trans is true or real. no-one knows any trans people because it's a nonsense- we know men and we know women.

I don't think queer was even in our consciousness really.

I went to school in the 90s too. You were unaware, obviously. Not everyone was. Did you ever watch "Queer As Folk"? Calling things "gay" at school back in the day is a different type of usage to what posters are talking about with "queer". My brother called my pencil case "gay" once. It's stupid and puerile and not nice but he wasn't engaging with the inherent homophobia, he just didn't like my pencil case. It's similar to the difference between misogyny where you utterly hate women and casual misogyny where you make lame jokes that women can't drive. Queer" was what we would now term "hate speech", what people called gay men when they thought they were fair game to beat up, verbally abuse or discriminate against.

Well a black person can reclaim the n word even though historically it’s been used as a violent racist insult so queer people can reclaim the queer slur.
its up to the individual if they want to call themselves that, I wouldn’t call anyone else queer. So if you’re offended and traumatised by how I ID that’s a choice you make.

By ‘anti trans’ you mean pro women and girls?

It’s those ‘anti trans’ women who are fighting hardest to save ‘trans’ kids from mutilation and sterilisation. While ghouls prey on their for cannon fodder.

@SlipperSliders There's a whole heap of ND people who are gender critical. Myself included. Just because I'm articulate and can hold down a job doesn't mean all ND people are. Some of my reasons are the sheer amount of ND girls who've gone through the Tavistock clinic, and that vulnerable women and girls should have the right to single sex care.

https://www.transgendertrend.com/severely-learning-disabled-girl-sex-based-rights-under-threat/

As an aside, I hate the word 'queer'. I'm bisexual, nothing more, nothing less.

Achingly ridiculous nonsense. There is no ‘male brain’ outside of a male body. There is no ‘male
brain’ that also controls menstruation, pregnancy and menopause.

Women can be more ‘masculine’. But that has precisely nothing to do with their sex. There is no one way to be a woman.

The only pre-requisite is being conceived female.

This 100%. Campaigning women have always been looking out for vulnerable women and children, and been told again and again it’s just ignorant bigotry.

It’s hateful that now the data is growing to undeniable levels of clarity in showing how much harm society has put those vulnerable groups in and those GC women were right all along, it’s suddenly “both sides were as bad, they just both wanted to argue and no one cared about the children”. Bullshit. That’s WHY women fought all these battles and fought for good research and data, while TRAs were putting on balaclavas and attacking open debates and fucking off safeguarding entirely in the name of rainbow wonderfulness.

That selective memory-holing can all get in the bin, thanks.