To think that the majority of trans people are neurodivergent

You say you are unaware of the rates of detransition.

This is problematic when we've been 'educated' widely to have an affirmation only approach.

If rates of detransition and research into detransition aren't known widely, why on earth is there such a push for affirmation only?

This is against all best practice advice. No one is informed. And the implications about proper consent and unintended consequences to such widespread ignorance are huge.

This is the single most depressing thing.

If there was a robust scientific base for any of this, the arguments would not so critical. In the absence of that we have a massive problem

Yes, I have a DD who sounds a lot like your DS. Diagnosed ASD, She says she is ND. It's a horrible term isn't it.

I have 4 adult kids. Two boys, two girls. Two boys are trans identified. All of my children are neuro divergent. Both boys claim to be trans? Both girls are very radical feminists. It's been a nightmare to navigate tbh. I'm also a radical feminist and I've tried very very hard to make sure all of my kids have life skills like decorating and diy cooking etc.

I really feel like I've wasted my time with the boys tbh. They had a strong male to model. Not I do think the ND counts for a huge part of it.

Yep my autistic teen thinks it's all a load of shite and has no time for it, thinks they're boring attention seekers. Actually all the genuine ND teens I know (family and kids of friends) think it's total hogwash. That's not to say that many young people that DO think they're trans aren't ND, but people like OP need to be mindful that statements that sound like a sweeping generalisation of connecting ND people with the gender bollocks, is really harmful and offensive to ND people who don't buy into it.

It really is and I can’t say anything. I can’t suggest that by having 4 more kids when the first was profoundly disabled may have had an impact. I can’t say that these kids are traumatised in ways we never consider because we don’t see the neglect of them because we’re too busy celebrating the parents for barely holding it all together.

i can’t say that every time you gave the healthy child a tablet to tend to the ever increasing needs of the disabled one you pushed them to seek solace in the wrong places.

granted it’s not every single family and it is more complex that this but there’s certainly a pattern of vulnerable children crying out for help and self harming in whatever way they can. Trans imo is a form of self harm and release for some kids in a lot of pain.

@glittercunt - a young female cousin of mine for example.
They're physically disabled (in a form that is also highly associated with neurodiversity) and I would say present as ND. They had a fairly miserable time in school 14-18. After school and in lockdown, they were online a LOT. At that point they informed their parents that they were male and planned to transition surgically.

Are you seriously suggesting that young people are not influenced by their peers online, often speaking from very different cultures (eg the US, where 65% of all adults are on at least one prescription drug - it us a medicalised culture very unlike ours)? Because I disagree with you. I think that transition for my cousin was a coping strategy for all sorts of other difficulties that was presented online as a solution to those problems. I think it is OK that they wanted to transition. I don't think they are a man, and I don't think the surgery they had was positive. I further think that those online voices presented a strong, definite series of actions to improve my cousin's that symbolised taking control of her own destiny and identity. Nobody else was offering help that my cousin could access or found useful. I think transition was effectively a placebo, or at best a rite of passage. And I believe very much in the placebo effect.

Hard agree

I understood that it had been reclaimed. I'm very surprised to see it being described as a slur here.

And why can't we tell adolescents:

'It is NORMAL that you don't know who you are or where you fit in yet. It is NORMAL that you don't really like your body or feel comfortable in it. It is NORMAL that social situations are sometimes bloody awkward and hard work... this is adolescence. It isn't forever and it doesn't mean you wish you were born with or without various body parts.'

I'd agree with this, up to a point, but imagining how my adolescent self would have reacted to being told this? I'd add that it being normal doesn't mean that your feelings aren't real or that what you're going through isn't genuinely difficult for you. And that yes, it's much more difficult for some young people than others. But it's not forever, and even if it doesn't seem like it now, someday you'll be able to look back on it from the other side, happier, and be glad you waited it out.

(Any of that would have been better than the categorically wrong 'these are the best years of your life' comments I got from certain people, though. No, the teenage years were absolutely the worst. I haven't lived a charmed adult life, but autonomy and better coping strategies make all the difference.)

I'm not trans but I am neurodivergent - and get this DreamTheMoors - I'm a responsible adult with a responsible job, living my life - who'd have thought, eh?

Neurodivergent isn't the insult you seem to think it is and you can't possibly know if your friends are neurodivergent. You clearly know nothing about the issue which is fine, it's complex. 'Having a friend' means fuck all in this scenario. I was married for 20 years - neither of us knew the other was neurodivergent - turns out our entire families are which explains generations of severe mental illness resulting from the pressure to conform.

We all deserve to be proud of our identities but best make sure it really is our own identity and not some pseudo ideology that we've been sold and that will bite us on the arse. Those that stand by and applaud may not in fact be friends at all.

Do you just accept that they are trans or do you dig in to the reasons for their belief?

But the flip side of the coin would be this could also be said about some ND?

Start here.

https://4w.pub/autism-puberty-gender-dysphoria-view-from-an-autistic-desisted-woman

I work with Sen children and all of the EHCP requests we receive for trans children they either have ASD or severe mental health issues. Obviously this is skewed as I only see those applying for an EHCNA but in my experience, of the children who are trans, there is a link.

What’s an enby?

Absolutely!!

I hated my body because I was a tomboy and wanted to run around playing football with my boobs bouncing everywhere.

I remember thinking I was born in the wrong body and shaving all of my hair off and binding my chest.
This was 20 years ago.

I am not anti trans but I am so glad that this wasn’t as big as it is now (we had the odd Hayley off corrie story but it was less idolised), as I absolutely love my body and love being a female now but I could have easily been led down the wrong path.

Yes that's a really good point you make. I wondered if people have historically felt this way but never felt they could be ' out there's because of societal rejection, no means to access any medical support. It was less accepted so hidden potentially.

A bit like there are now suddenly huge numbers of ND people popping up. I believe they have always been there and they absolutely are ND. I don't buy this everyone's buying a diagnosis crap. People hid it where they could.

@PianPianPiano I'm glad it's not just me they picked up on that. It's really fucking offensive isn't it?

Excellent point

Wow, are you actually suggesting that ND people can't have responsible jobs?! That someone can't be aaw student or a nurse or a bank manager? What an appalling thing to say.

I’ve worked with many ND people.

Half of them are as you describe and would absolutely be caught up in the trans movement because they’re so desperate to fit in to societal norms.

If a girl likes to play football and wants to be a mechanic when she grows up, it would be very easy for her to be swayed into thinking she should have been born a boy.

But the other half are completely the opposite and struggle to understand the concept at all.
They think if you’re a boy, you’re a boy. End of.

They do not care if they want to wear pink or play with cars because they’re not wrapped up in trying to be cool or to fit in.

I found less diagnosed ND teens wanting to be trans than I did in mainstream who weren’t diagnosed as ND (although some possibly were).

I definitely think there is a vulnerability element to it and many ND children are vulnerable.

So I don’t know if it’s a ND issue it just a vulnerability issue.

The more vulnerable you are, the more you’re going to look for somewhere to fit in and be accepted.
They’ll now do this by going on the internet where the trans movement is very in your face.

Less so horrified at the changing body.

more horrified at the response my changing body had on the men around me. It was grotesque and if I could’ve stopped puberty to stop that I would.

Gosh that's so sad. On multiple levels.

A lot of professionals would disagree. Certainly the NHS uses the term to to refer to neurological disorders and not mental illness.

As the latter is something that may be temporary and can be recovered from I don't think it's helpful to equate the two.