To think that the majority of trans people are neurodivergent

I'm 48. I remember it being a slur. I said that I understood that it had been reclaimed, not that it had never been offensive.

This is patent nonsense. ‘Trans’ people are the safest group - by far - in every western society. When you talk about ‘horrifying’ attacks on ‘trans’ people you are referring to ‘misgendering’. Or ‘correctly sexing’.

‘Trans’ people have a platform, a power and an influence unprecedented in modern human history. They are venerated by politicians (including the US president and his VP), media, most large corporations, all big tech except Twitter, and big pharma.

Women and girls can only dream of such protection and support.

Thus the lie is proved.

Most people aged 50+ will tell you that it was used as a homophobic slur when we were growing up and therefore definitely to be avoided. Have you never come across this before?

In the very distant past it simply meant “strange” or “unusual” hence nervous giggles at school when we read sentences such as “I’m feeling rather queer today”, or “She came over rather queer” or “He had a queer expression on his face”.

If you’re going to use this word it’d be a good idea to understand why some people older than you don’t understand or are offended by the fact that it appears to be common parlance again, given its use and meaning a few decades ago.

I do agree with this more than the argument towards doing it to fit in. Many people would be aware that they are signing up for a truly horrible experience - more so than being openly Autistic.

@southbiscay yes that's very interesting. I can't recall who posted about their work with ND kids - diagnosed Autistic ( less presenting as trans ) Vs suspicious of Autism yet not diagnosed ( more trans).

My son said some really different things regards identify and sexuality from a young age. Thinking he was gay ( that isn't odd, but the way he articulated it and his feelings were definitely different), confusion regards his feelings towards males, was it friendship was it not. It was evidently different and what led to me realising there is a difference.

Son is diagnosed now, we're very pro ND, shout it to the rooftops and tough if you don't like it. He's now very anti the trans agenda, very confidently heterosexual and no questions regarding his preference. This could have come about anyway but I do feel if we'd buried our heads in denial or just not realising for too long that causes some major issues for these young people.

I totally agree we can't lump everyone together and every trans person is different with different things at play.

Yeah I identified as trans for nearly a decade and am ND as were the vast majority of my network.

I think youre adding 2 + 2 together and getting 6.

Many ND folks don't feel they fit in. They can also fixate and seek ways to fit in.

I personally think trans is a movement. Ive seen this before where straight people said they were gay when gay became a movement in the 90's.

There are people who are trans, obviously, but are they definitively trans? There is imo a high possibility they are just saying it to fit in or to be trendy.

Once we have societal acceptance of trans and it isnt a movement Tom, Dick and Harry jump on to feel they fit in, we'll see that trans isnt largely ND but more a general % across the whole population.

I personally cannot wait for societal acceptance of ND and trans.

Equity rules!

One key problem has been to lump everyone who identifies as trans as all being the same and having the same needs (homogenous).

Yup. It shifts one's understanding very significantly to understand the various groups that are being lumped together under a 'trans' umbrella

Gender non conforming people
Confused teenagers
Genuine dysphorics
AGP men
Predatory men

Whose interests are we serving by grouping these very different cohorts together?

A diagnosis of gender dysphoria is often cited as evidencing that a person is truly trans. But if you look up the criteria by which a diagnosis is made it is pretty much all about old-fashioned gender stereotypes: boys wanting to play with Barbies instead of trucks etc etc. Added to which there are innumerable online resources telling kids what to say to the medical professional in order to get a diagnosis. There are no empirical tests- none. And yet for liking the "wrong" toys or clothes or wanting a different hairstyle, we have been making people into lifelong medical patients.

With respect to the ND aspect, it is true that autistic kids are over represented amongst trans-identifying kids but I think it's because it offers them an opportunity to fit in. Kids who come out as trans are celebrated, there are lgbt groups in schools etc that welcome them in. I'm not inclined to think there is an innate or biological link between ND and trans identity.

How can 'becoming your true self' require such drastic medical changes? I really do believe we will look back on this era and wonder what the hell we were thinking.

Are we labelling delayed reaching maturity (and problems associated with that) as being trans?

Is emotional puberty presenting differently in autistic kids? Is this the problem?

It’s actually very rare that they do. GD is an Incredibly rare disorder and is almost completely exclusive to males. It is also ‘persistent and insistent’ from toddlerhood.

Almost none of the ‘trans’ people you hear about now fit those criteria. Most ‘transwomen’ also have no plans or desire to have their penis removed

Where are all the women in their 40s saying 'i wish I could have been trans'? If it was genetic.

Hmm. Seems to be a bunch of them saying 'i was gender nonconforming when I was in my teens and early twenties but THANK GOD that wasn't a thing though.

One key problem has been to lump everyone who identifies as trans as all being the same and having the same needs (homogenous).

Cass points out this isn't reflected in reality. It's a heterogenous (lots of different groups) with multiple complex needs.

In other words the narrative of 'transpeople' just is flat wrong.

It's likely to be different sub groups with different issues - which we should recognise and treat accordingly - so yes some affected by abuse, some autistic, some gay and not really understanding this or coming to terms with it, some with parents who are pushing stuff onto them and uncomfortably some who are likely to be doing it for sexual kicks.

Affirmation only is unlikely to be a good blanket response as a result. The evidence isn't there for a female cohort who are now middle aged or older who are saying they want to transition or should have transitioned. What evidence there is, is largely male centric which has it's own issues (not least about unresearched side effects in females).

This isn't hating anyone. It's treating everyone as an individual who needs to be seen as an individual rather than a mindless blob by so called 'trans allies'.

The other thing about detransitioning is that it sometimes doesn't make sense for those who've gone so far down the road of surgery and hormones. I've read stories from people who regret every single thing they've done, but the impact has been very significant and they can't reverse that.

There was a heartbreaking story on Twitter the other day about young men who have 'bottom surgery'
and effectively castrate themselves in the delusion that they can 'become women'. When they realise the fallacy of that, and the truth that they're simply confused gay guys, they can't simply go back to that lifestyle. They've done too much damage.

When we’re talking about biological men (men) in approx 98pc of cases - gender dysphoria is vanishingly, vanishingly rare - it’s autogynephilia. This particular paraphilia has now been branded ‘stunning and brave’ and so it’s all being flaunted in women’s faces.

This ^

Paradoxically if I had gone from tomboy to trans as a teen, my own DD who identifies as trans wouldn't exist. Also is gay and highly likely autistic (as am I).

Oh absolutely - I wouldn't want adolescents told that in that way!

And yes, 'its normal' does not mean 'so you're an idiot for feeling... whatever' or 'what you're feeling isn't real'!

Those struggles and feelings are real, the brain is figuring some shit out, as is the entire body... its simply NOT a time to be making permanent life changing decisions and yet it IS a time we actually do start to ask kids to do that, and has been for a very long time (long before kids wanting to take puberty blockers has been a thing, thats just an additional fuckery)

@RedToothBrush that's a really good point. It's important to know in order to help inform ones viewpoint. I will research this topic a little more I think. I find it interesting.

My points above are very much is it possible rather than I absolutely believe this. As you can probably tell from my posts, I am quite malleable on many subjects like this. I believe many people are very uninformed on this subject and have strong views yet know less than I do.

I'm very open to possibility that many, possibly the majority would not be and vice versa. My thoughts are, do we really know everything and enough on this ( biological element). I don't see myself as affirming. I am opposed to various aspects of the ' pro trans' agenda. I'm sure some trans people are equally opposed to this - enforcing pronoun changes on everyone else, public space issues, sports, children and adolescents. I have quite fixed views on this now thanks to my Autistic son who is not ' pro ' or trans affirmative.

'But I would feel that' not 'But I would feel'

Despite being GC I think talking about detransition is often a bit simplistic. People move through stages in life, and they don't often go backwards, they're not the sameeven if they leave some things behind as they get older.

That being said, the lack of proper data on desistance and detransition is really crap imo, influenced by the narrative that 'being trans' is something innate rather than a human response to experience. But I would feel 30 years ago i married a man who had already desisted from transition, and when I worked in a service for transgender people, patients often rang us to tell us they were stopping transition, permanently or temporarily.

I was saying quite clearly they aren’t ND.

I’m not going to argue with you.

Recent German study has suggested detransition rates are now at 71%.

Not scientifically proven.