To think that the majority of trans people are neurodivergent

I don't use the term as I grew up with it being derogatory. But in recent years, I have heard it used more frequently by gay men and women and people with nonbinary partners, for example Chrishell Stause uses that term for her relationship.

My gay friend has worked as a teacher for 30+yrs and recently commented on Gen Z's lack of awareness that the word was a slur. He thought it was a good thing and a reflection of the positive shift in society.

I still don't feel comfortable using it, it doesn't come naturally to me but I thought it was nice that he went from hearing that word being used to abuse and degrade others to have now lost that power for another generation.

By definition you cannot reclaim something that was never yours in the first place, so young people cannot reclaim the word queer to mean something other than the derogatory term it was used as in the 1970s and 80s and I can well understand that anyone who was subjected to "queer bashing" would be highly offended by this. It was, however, misappropriated from a much older use meaning to feel unwell or strange so who knows what it will mean in another 100 years or so.

I also understand how certain groups of people use derogatory terms within their own peer groups, eg. queer, the N word etc - reference the group NWA. It is very much like when you slag-off one of your family, but if someone else does it you at least challenge them verbally if not physically. It is okay within the specific social circle but not by outsiders.

It is always best to be respectful of other people who you don't know well, but this goes both ways and someone who doesn't know or understand a specific situation and may inadvertently say the wrong thing should not be attacked for this. Someone on this thread had a go at someone else when they asked a question saying they couldn't be bothered with a reply and that they expect they know the answer anyway. If people in certain situations and circumstances can't be bothered to help others to understand then that situation isn't going to improve. We can only learn by other people sharing their knowledge.

I hope YOU aren't stupid enough to think that being abused doesn't affect how you think about your body.
If being abused can lead to self harm, eating disorders, and suicide attempts, it's not exactly a leap to think it can lead to wanting your body to be different or hating your body how it is.

This.

Jesus. Sorry you are arguing it’s a good thing that young gays and lesbians have been homophobicly bullied into hiding their true sexuality under an umbrella that includes straight people?
And the organisation and groups that were for gay people think that’s a good thing?

Queer was invented by organizations previously set up for the human rights of gays and lesbians, who had won their big legal victories, and who needed to find a way to expand their mission so they could keep attracting money and survive. This is a story of organizational survival.

You could try reading the Cass report to see the high correlation of trans with other vulnerable characteristics. There is a Welsh school survey on Health which also makes clear the very high vulnerability of young people with NB identities. Children in care are also over represented amongst those identifying as trans.
We should not blind ourselves to the conclusions to be drawn from this.

No, it’s a disgusting homophobic slur and I’ve reported that post.

Er, it’s been reclaimed, to the point it’s gone mainstream.

If you asked me to describe myself in 10 words I probably wouldn't mention I was a woman, I might say I had a child....though probably wouldn't say I'm a mother.

I dont know why, I'm 44, married (to a man) and I've always felt this way.

But I am NOT non-binary or an ENBY..... this made up batshittery.

Male/female = that's it.

The majority of girls I think feel like they would like to opt out of a lot of female issues as a teen. Also it's the stage where we go from being equal in size and strength to becoming the "weaker sex". I think that's why girls are so drawn to the idea that they can become a boy/man.

I'm NT but during my teenage years was bullied for having a boyish body and liking to have my hair cut short.
I was a late bloomer and didn't really have much interest in boys, apart from as friends.

I know 100% that if I was a teen now I would be identifying as something other than a straight woman/teen.

But I am a straight woman, and I strongly believe that women's rights are being eroded by the trans narrative. Augentophiles, males with a sexual thrill to dress and enter women's spaces are the ones who are pushing the trans narrative.

People with actual sexual dysphoria are not getting the treatment they need to have the life they need and are put on the pile with everyone else to go through the sexual reassignment factory. Where no care is taken and massive mistakes are being made.

I have read through the whole thread and it is probably one of the most balanced on the subject of trans people I have read on munsnet. Very little abuse, thank you.

I have an adult DC, ftm. NT although tested many times. We have ND wider family members.
My DC is quietly and gradually changing.
She no longer insists on male pronouns, but her friends call her by her chosen name. We call her by her birth name. At thirteen she hated us doing that, now it doesn't seem a big thing.
She's very clever but has SEMH. This comes under SEN. We found out about an attack at twelve two years after the event. She was a very pretty child who reached puberty early and attracted disgusting interest from men.
She hasn't liked her body and looks since then.
I have worked with and employed trans people. Both MTF. One happy the other not. Both had surgery. One regretted it.
My DD is not an activist and accepts her biological sex (she's a med student of sorts). I cannot pin down why she wants a male gender when she is not gay. What I do know is certain television shows and the Internet were her companions in covid. She is asthmatic so she was shielding. And no she doesn't support bio males in female spaces or use the term queer. She thinks it's offence.

Ok no worries

Apologies to @WifeOfTiresias I attributed the quote you by accident. 😊

I was meant to quote @VeryHappyBunny but I’m on my phone and got it wrong. 😳🤦🏻‍♀️

@WappityWabbit no idea why you tagged me in your last post, I didn't post any of the things you quoted.

@WifeOfTiresias

By its very definition everyone is neurodiverse to a greater or lesser degree. It is not a medically diagnosed condition but an umbrella term to describe differences
in mental function, but difference from what. Who decides what is "normal".

What are you talking about?? The majority of people are definitely not ND to any extent. ND people are most definitely in the minority.

Neurodiversity is a medically recognised and diagnosed condition. My son's consultant is an eminent Paediatrician who specialises in this area of medicine.

Everyone can have an opinion on the matter but at least allow scientific facts to help form that opinion!

I think most people who identify as Trans have serious mental health issues which are not being professionally addressed.

They may also be ND but that's a separate issue.

Not all trans people are nd nor are all nd people trans. It does tend to be quite common among young nd people for various reasons though particularly young women

Are the majority of trans identified youth ND and/or victims of trauma abuse. The poor data we have seems to confirm this.

The 40 year old blokes in dresses who 'just want to pee' not so much.

That's fine, I don't mind a bit of pedantry and as you say better to be correct about things.

I think it was the late 60s when people started using the word gender on forms because kids would look up the word sex in the dictionary and start giggling or write yes please. It was a coy way of writing the word sex. Somehow it’s all been twisted.

Your first paragraph, the appropriate word to use is sex, not gender. The two are not interchangeable. Sorry to be pedantic, but it's best to avoid misunderstandings.

When I was 16-17, I thought I was trans. I ended up blubbering about it to my Sociology tutor at college. Although we'd not looked at feminism in class at that point yet, he gave me a couple of books to read. It was as plain as day that what I was actually doing was rejecting the societal view of women. What a revelation! Now I strongly believe that gender dysphoria is real and distressing for some but does anyone actually sit down with teens and talk to them about society's expectations for men and women/boys and girls?

I think its more that it has been "reclaimed" by younger people, who never had it used on them as a slur, but is still considered a slur by gay people aged over about 40. So generational more than anything.

When you are born you are either male or female. This is your gender, your sexuality is what you choose to do with it. Most people are attracted to people of the opposite gender. Obviously some people are not, but this isn't something you choose. Sexual attraction is not a quantifiable thing and someone who is raved about by some are found deeply unattractive by others. Similarly your sexuality isn't something you choose, it is an inherent part of who you are. Unfortunately the current craze of young people who are making life altering decisions about their bodies are being unduly influenced by so-called celebrities and crack-pot postings on the internet. They are not making informed decisions based on facts and their own situations. The very fact that some people who have transitioned are transitioning back to their original state of being is proof of this.

When it comes to all the labels that are put on people or they put on themselves it is no wonder they are confused, with all the acronyms you have nearly got the full alphabet. It is natural to be curious about yourself and others when you are going through puberty but by going on the internet and being told things like if you like pink and dolls and ballet you a girl and if you don't you're not and vice versa for boys if not helpful.

By its very definition everyone is neurodiverse to a greater or lesser degree. It is not a medically diagnosed condition but an umbrella term to describe differences
in mental function, but difference from what. Who decides what is "normal". Personally I wear men's jeans because they are a better fit than women's and have deeper pockets because I don't like handbags, I don't like pink, I watch cricket, rugby and football but I am very definitely a heterosexual female, but if I was growing up now as opposed to the 70s the internet would be telling me that I was bi or trans or whatever. Fortunately we didn't have that sort of malign influence and so could make up our own minds.

The internet is great for a lot of things but social media has a lot to answer for including adversely influencing young minds. A lot of people of all ages believe everything they read and when that is telling them to behave a certain way or do certain things it can literally be destructive.

Let people live their lives the way they were meant to and not be coerced into actions which can ruin them forever.

Yes, I know 3 trans people and they are all autistic. I never saw the correlation before!

I feel that gender is not only a social construct but a neuro typical construct. People who are ND, in my experience, often find the concept of gender and gender roles utterly bizarre. Which it is (but then I’m on the waiting list for an ADHD assessment myself).

To me this would suggest more ND people would not identify with their born “gender”. But I’m not expert.

By today’s standards I can imagine I would be questioning my gender if I were a child now.