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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU to insist my son has the suspension lifted?

253 replies

NightmareATschool · 22/06/2024 08:37

First time in trouble for any kind of physical altercation

My son is in year 8 and yesterday was pinned to the ground, twisting his wrist behind his back as he went down ( we went to a&e to have it checked after school as swollen and bruised ) and was then held down by this boy.

My son is 5 foot 5 and the other pupil is at least 5 foot 9 and a lot bigger built.

The boy was pinning him down with his legs trapped underneath him and his holding both of his arms on my sons right arm ( fingerprint bruising is visible because of this ) so my son used his left arm to hit out and hit the boys head.

Boy then get off and walks across the playground and son sits on a bench holding his sore arm.

The boy then returns, runs at him from the side view and punches down on my sons head.

SLT state both to be suspended due to violence.

I have started absolutely not, that the violence is on completely different levels and one was very much in self defence and one was completely premeditated.

I’ve sent in the complaint from from the schools complain procedure policy and I’ve CCd the SEN governors as my son has ADHD.

This happened at 11am yesterday and he spent the entire day in isolation, only being allowed to go to the lunch hall to get something to eat and then return to isolation.
Surely this is punishment enough for defending yourself whilst pinned to the ground?

Thoughts?
Anything else I could do? Thanks

OP posts:
Thread gallery
10
NightmareATschool · 22/06/2024 14:36

Silvers11 · 22/06/2024 11:49

My son saw his 2 friends kicking a water bottle around so joined them.
Not a water bottle from home but a clear one purchaser from the school canteen type one.
He didn’t realise it was this boys bottle as doesn’t know this boy at all.

@NightmareATschool Well thank you for the extra information. This explanation is one of 'The Flaws' mentioned by @Sirzy in that something must have happened before the rest of it, for it all to kick off and you made it sound as if it all happened for no good reason

So what actually happened was the other boy was being bullied. You will only have your sons word for it that he just joined the friends in the bottle kicking and didn't know where the bottle came from. Even if that's true ( which I would have to say, I strongly doubt), but even if it is, he became involved in a bullying matter without finding out why they were kicking the bottle about.

Sounds like the other child is the victim here, and was retaliating, not your son. I would have been using this whole situation to have a discussion around bullying and behaviour in general. I would also be supporting the school in their 'consequences'.

Not only are you not supporting them, you want the suspension lifted and you have reported it to the police? YABVU

So you think that pushing someone to the ground and pinning them down is an appropriate way of handling seeing someone kicking a water bottle that fell out of your bag?

My son has has his water stolen from him whilst still in the canteen when he has just bought it and drank in front of him by older pupils ( reported to school ) and didn’t push someone to the ground and pin them down.

OP posts:
NightmareATschool · 22/06/2024 14:31

This reply has been deleted

Withdrawn at the request of the user.

No I’m sending him in because when I told SLT I disagreed with the suspension she said “ ok, send him in but complete an online complaints form on our website and send it over to me “ which I did straight away so it was received before the end of the school day.

OP posts:
Midlifecryses · 22/06/2024 14:30

There is a lot of misinformation in this thread and I would be wary of taking advice from some of the posters. OP you need to follow the policies of your school and not take advice from people who would send their child in anyway!!

have you had an official suspension letter? I only ask because you say he is going in on Monday anyway? Has the school agreed this or are you saying you will send him regardless? If he is suspended officially he cannot be on school grounds or out and about, a PP suggesting he is legally allowed an education is correct however, that doesn’t have to be on school site. He can be directed to on line learning.

Disputing a suspension is within your rights but you are in a much better position to do what is required regarding the suspension and then follow the complaints procedure. Usually it will go to governors first, maybe an option to appeal to the LA afterwards.

It isn’t an easy option for schools to suspend and there are many considerations. Much the same as in the real world self defence isn’t always applicable. But the main point is not whether any of us agree it should be a suspension but you follow the correct channels to appeal.

NightmareATschool · 22/06/2024 14:28

Willsean · 22/06/2024 11:33

It being the first time in trouble for a physical alteration doesn't lessen the facts it's a physical alteration.

You weren't there so don't know your son's actions. It's likely the school staff do and can view CCTV.

They don't give fixed term exclusions to kids who haven't done anything wrong.

I asked them to view the CCTV and she said it didn’t cover the playground

SLT gave me the account before my son did as he was still in isolation at 2pm when she called me!

OP posts:
Querty123456 · 22/06/2024 14:17

If you send your child into school on Monday when he shouldn’t be there he’ll just end up in isolation. Not fair on your child to put him in that position. Keep him off until he’s had his reintegration meeting.

kierenthecommunity · 22/06/2024 14:15

allmyown · 22/06/2024 12:36

In my experience a very large number of mothers do not know anything about what their child is like at school- I speak to such mothers on a daily basis.

I used to be a PCSO. If I had a pound for every mum who told me ‘I know my kids’ and ‘my kids don’t lie to me’ even after being told two PCSOs had seen their cherub doing something anti social - I could probably retire 😂

(Not necessarily saying the OP and her DS are of this ilk to be fair)

NightmareATschool · 22/06/2024 14:12

ASighMadeOfStone · 22/06/2024 10:45

So the timeline is that the OP's son and his friends were kicking another boy's water bottle around.

The other boy retaliated by being extremely violent to the OP's son who retaliated in turn.

There is no excuse for violence under any circumstance and suspension for both the violent boys would be the default for most schools. And quite rightly.

The school will also have taken into consideration that it was the OP's son's friends who had somehow initially obtained the other boy's water bottle and were kicking it around.

Not an excuse for the ensuing violence, but an explanation of why it happened.

What happened to the other boys who were involved in the water bottle incident @NightmareATschool ? Does your son have any idea why he was targeted and not them, given he only joined in later?

Nothing is happening to the other boys as I asked this question

The reason my son was targeted is because he was the one with the bottle by his foot as the boy ran back towards them

It seems the boy dropped the water bottle out of his bag as he ran past the 3 other boys who were out slightly earlier than my son so they began kicking it and then my son joined in - at the time the boy noticed his bottle had fallen so saw my son with it and went for him

I do know his suspension is for a longer period as I also asked this but it was said in a way that it was longer because this isn’t the other boys first physical offence not because his actions this time around were worse than my sons

OP posts:
NightmareATschool · 22/06/2024 14:05

ezzemma · 22/06/2024 10:42

Sounds like your son and his friends were bullying the boy , by kicking his water around and the boy reacted .

My son didn’t know whose bottle it was - he thought his friend has just found it on the floor!
as I said it wasn’t a bottle you would bring in from home but a bottle love an Evian bottle

OP posts:
LookItsMeAgain · 22/06/2024 13:50

Did you follow the anti-bullying policy for the school? I'd be asking the school what they are planning on doing to safeguard your son's safety while he is in their care? You can't really do anything about the other child because you can only advocate for your own child but you can explain what you did here.

Your poor boy being tackled to the ground so violently like that. I'd be wondering where the other kid learned it, along with the responsibility of the kids that would have been around - why didn't any of them say to stop? Were they afraid of this other kid? Tends to happen when there is a bully around, others don't want to put themselves in the cross-hairs and draw attention to themselves.

Best of luck with your discussions with the school.

DelilahRay · 22/06/2024 13:49

This reply has been withdrawn

Withdrawn at the request of the user.

Crispsarethebestfood · 22/06/2024 13:39

Keely199 · 22/06/2024 12:49

Don't take those who have voted you as unreasonable they obviously have little shitty bastard out of control brats that go around hitting qnd bullying while there parents do fuck all your son needs to punch his face in if he does it again he wont touch him again iv told my daughter to kick the fuck out of anyone that hits her first its called self discipline hitting back teaches a bully the victim will not tolerate being used as a punching bag i think schools should have teaching in self defence to all kids.

Oh god. You are one of the parents I was referring to on an earlier post (incase you didn’t realise).
It’s called self defence not self discipline.
And yes of course, schools have nothing else to do than ‘have teaching in self defence’ to all kids. Once we’ve sorted out spelling, punctuation and grammar. For the parents as well, obviously…..🙄

VeterinaryCareAssistant · 22/06/2024 13:35

What did your son do to get a beating in the first place?

kierenthecommunity · 22/06/2024 13:33

Keely199 · 22/06/2024 12:49

Don't take those who have voted you as unreasonable they obviously have little shitty bastard out of control brats that go around hitting qnd bullying while there parents do fuck all your son needs to punch his face in if he does it again he wont touch him again iv told my daughter to kick the fuck out of anyone that hits her first its called self discipline hitting back teaches a bully the victim will not tolerate being used as a punching bag i think schools should have teaching in self defence to all kids.

‘Kicking the fuck’ out of someone who hits you is called retaliation. Self defence is doing as much as is necessary to stop the assault and get away safely.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/06/2024 13:31

TruJay · 22/06/2024 12:37

Ask for cctv, my son was hung drawn and quartered for ‘attacking a girl’ within an hour of an incident at school, would be excluded for 3 days and completely vilified by teachers and peers. This was because they ‘investigated’ and got ‘statements’ from the girl and her friends.

If you knew my son, you would know how completely out of character this would be.
Upon an actual investigation at my insistence and viewing of cctv it was revealed my son did nothing and was in fact attacked by the main girl and her friends, who then caused the injuries to the main girl themselves because in their words ‘it’s fun to get him into trouble because he’s weird’.

My son is Autistic and has many other difficulties. I was furious! How utterly cruel and the sheer gall that of staff to treat him the way they all did. Absolutely no ‘innocent until proven guilty’ in sight!
I also highlighted the danger of this group of girls creating stories, what if it had been an accusation of sexual assault?

I cannot wait for my son to finish secondary school.

This is dreadful. I hope the girls were severely punished. I would think this be considered a hate crime and something you could or could have reported to the police.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/06/2024 13:29

Crispsarethebestfood · 22/06/2024 11:10

I am writing this as a secondary school teacher with behavioural responsibility. As others have said, it might not have arrived yet but if they are going ahead with the suspension they have to send paperwork and on there it gives you how you can appeal. If you win the appeal, the suspension days are removed from your child’s record. If you send your child in on Monday and they are accepted into lessons as normal, they have decided not to suspend. If he is put in isolation, they may still count it as a suspension on his record (and just not tell you) so you need to get that clarified if you are adamant that he should not be suspended over this.
From what you have said, and what you say you have been told, it sounds like a knee-jerk ‘suspend both cos they both hit each other’ reaction from the school. It is very likely that you were the second call, the first being to the other child’s parent who responded with ‘well my kid was hit too what are you going to do about that’ and the response, to pacify, was ‘he’ll be suspended too’. Not ideal, not if we are honest what should happen but unfortunately what does happen sometimes.

If you can, take him in on Monday morning and ask to speak face to face with someone. Explain the situation and what you were told over the phone. If the story hasn’t changed , a reasonable face to face conversation fresh on Monday morning will probably yield much better results than a fraught Friday afternoon phone call.

I just wanted to highlight this post and the others made by Crisps for sound advice.

N27 · 22/06/2024 13:18

Ask the school to put in writing to you what in their opinion the correct course of action your son should have taken in the event of being pinned to the floor and physically assaulted.

its all very well saying violence is a hard line but are they really going to commit in writing that your son should not have responded physically in any way and should have just laid on the floor and accepted what was happening to him?

I would also ask if this applies to all situations, for example if this boy had pinned down your daughter instead of your son should she too have accepted events and not attempted any physical defence?

Keely199 · 22/06/2024 12:59

Feelsodrained · 22/06/2024 12:53

you sound nice. Good advice as well to threaten to punch someone’s face in. Would go down especially well after someone has just been suspended for violence. 👌

The victim was suspended when he shouldnt have been the other brat needs a good hiding to see what feels like being hurt..

Oblomov24 · 22/06/2024 12:59

Wait to see what the investigation says. But push back on them, it was self defence, so you should politely but firmly insist that he should be back in school asap.

Feelsodrained · 22/06/2024 12:53

Keely199 · 22/06/2024 12:49

Don't take those who have voted you as unreasonable they obviously have little shitty bastard out of control brats that go around hitting qnd bullying while there parents do fuck all your son needs to punch his face in if he does it again he wont touch him again iv told my daughter to kick the fuck out of anyone that hits her first its called self discipline hitting back teaches a bully the victim will not tolerate being used as a punching bag i think schools should have teaching in self defence to all kids.

you sound nice. Good advice as well to threaten to punch someone’s face in. Would go down especially well after someone has just been suspended for violence. 👌

Keely199 · 22/06/2024 12:49

Don't take those who have voted you as unreasonable they obviously have little shitty bastard out of control brats that go around hitting qnd bullying while there parents do fuck all your son needs to punch his face in if he does it again he wont touch him again iv told my daughter to kick the fuck out of anyone that hits her first its called self discipline hitting back teaches a bully the victim will not tolerate being used as a punching bag i think schools should have teaching in self defence to all kids.

TruJay · 22/06/2024 12:37

Ask for cctv, my son was hung drawn and quartered for ‘attacking a girl’ within an hour of an incident at school, would be excluded for 3 days and completely vilified by teachers and peers. This was because they ‘investigated’ and got ‘statements’ from the girl and her friends.

If you knew my son, you would know how completely out of character this would be.
Upon an actual investigation at my insistence and viewing of cctv it was revealed my son did nothing and was in fact attacked by the main girl and her friends, who then caused the injuries to the main girl themselves because in their words ‘it’s fun to get him into trouble because he’s weird’.

My son is Autistic and has many other difficulties. I was furious! How utterly cruel and the sheer gall that of staff to treat him the way they all did. Absolutely no ‘innocent until proven guilty’ in sight!
I also highlighted the danger of this group of girls creating stories, what if it had been an accusation of sexual assault?

I cannot wait for my son to finish secondary school.

allmyown · 22/06/2024 12:36

Zebedee999 · 22/06/2024 11:28

A mother knows her child. In my experience the school staff will do what involves them in the least hassle not what is right.

In my experience a very large number of mothers do not know anything about what their child is like at school- I speak to such mothers on a daily basis.

Nanny0gg · 22/06/2024 12:25

Razorwire · 22/06/2024 12:20

  1. follow complaints procedure exactly
  2. schools often “blame” both children for “unkind behavior” which is ineffective
  3. schools often lie in their investigations to cover their own lapses in supervision
  4. govenours often also defend school

so be aware that school is usually not in the RIGHT side of conflict, they are in the own side. Govenouers have own agenda.
Mainly, schools wants to blame everyone else for their failures.

In writing, ask for procedures and guidance for you & your son’s next steps. Everything in writing. If they call you, send an email directly after summarizing call asking for them confirm that you understand next step/outcome.
You want your son to understand (in writing) from school how to respond to a situation like this when he is not aggressor. So that he can avoid future suspension

And the level of supervision on the playground.

Hopefully other kid parent dealing w their kid too.

^^ This

Plus police if it is assault

Nanny0gg · 22/06/2024 12:23

Soontobe60 · 22/06/2024 09:58

I’d be interested to know what started this altercation. I very much doubt that it started when one boy sat on another for no reason.
Your DS obviously reacted to being held down, but instead of pushing the other boy off, he chose to punch him in the head. That’s a very dangerous thing to do.

They frequently start for no reason

Quite often for the Lols. There may not even be any malice behind it

But it needs to stop. Schools need to have supervision out there and there needs to be proper consequences. Every Single Time

Razorwire · 22/06/2024 12:20
  1. follow complaints procedure exactly
  2. schools often “blame” both children for “unkind behavior” which is ineffective
  3. schools often lie in their investigations to cover their own lapses in supervision
  4. govenours often also defend school

so be aware that school is usually not in the RIGHT side of conflict, they are in the own side. Govenouers have own agenda.
Mainly, schools wants to blame everyone else for their failures.

In writing, ask for procedures and guidance for you & your son’s next steps. Everything in writing. If they call you, send an email directly after summarizing call asking for them confirm that you understand next step/outcome.
You want your son to understand (in writing) from school how to respond to a situation like this when he is not aggressor. So that he can avoid future suspension

And the level of supervision on the playground.

Hopefully other kid parent dealing w their kid too.