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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To be concerned about a new fresh hell for female school pupils?

157 replies

Villamariawine · 21/06/2024 09:57

I’ve name changed for this as I don’t want the assumption to be I am one of the parents. I’m not. But I am the mother of a 6th former DD.

From The Times today - it is behind a paywall so I’ve included some of the salient points. I’ve removed the poll because frankly I’d be aghast if anyone thinks I am being unreasonable.
Two private schools are at the centre of a criminal investigation into the alleged making and sharing of deepfake pornographic images. Police are investigating claims that the deepfakes were created at a boys’ school by someone manipulating images taken from the social media accounts of pupils at a girls’ school.
The schools are in the same area of the country. Detectives became involved seven weeks ago when staff at the girls’ school alerted police and social services to reports that deepfake images and videos were in circulation at the boys’ school. About a dozen girls are thought to have been victims.

The report goes on to say:

Both schools are spending tens of thousands of pounds on crisis management PR firms and London law firms to manage the fallout. It is understood police asked the schools not to undertake internal inquiries or disciplinary measures during their investigation.

And

Police declined to comment on claims that they had been unable to recover phones and computer equipment of potential value to the investigation.

And

A spokesman for the boys’ school said: “Were any allegation to be received, the school would always take all appropriate steps to ensure the matter was fully and thoroughly investigated, including through making reports to, and taking advice from, the relevant external agencies and authorities. The school will always fully co-operate with any police investigation or directions.”

I’m not interested in which schools these are (The Times has not named them) and for the sake of the girls, please don’t name them. I’d wager that the lack of progress into some sort of justice for the girls is why The Times knows about the situation.

My AIBU is that this apparently happened at the start of May. Exams will have taken place, pupils will have left, important choices will have had to be made and these poor girls have had to deal with this on top of everything and the perpetrators are seemingly facing no consequences almost two months on. The Police have moved very quickly on other matters, why not this one? It is a criminal offence to even make deepfake images of a child, let alone distribute them. If there is nothing amiss, why are PR firms and Law Firms involved? Why would the girls school need to hire them? Surely their first thought is for the welfare on their pupils who are involved through no fault of their own? These images could follow them around forever if they were created of the girls when they were over the age of 18. Was nothing learned by schools after ‘everyone’s invited?’ about trying to cover up bad behaviour?

I’m dismayed that girls and their parents are being subjected to this new fresh hell.

OP posts:
KitKatChunki · 21/06/2024 15:09

Villamariawine · 21/06/2024 14:53

But this is exactly the point i am making. Universities ask for references not school disciplinary instances or indeed records. So off goes Johnny No-Consent-Necessary to University free to continue his ‘activities’ and the Universities collective consciences are clear because they don’t ask the specific question of the schools about Johnny’s record.

A bit like you cannot knowingly lie on a property exchange form, schools should be compelled to disclose to Universities any issues before the fox enters the hen house. If there were consequences to actions maybe not so many would feel emboldened to carry out these types of crimes. They are clearly not afraid of the Law at all.

This is why it is not simply a private school issue - any inaction by any school has potential repercussions on someone else’s child when they attend the same university as the perpetrator.

Maybe there needs to be a private flag system alongside applications where teachers can put a red flag on candidates they feel need internet history vetted by the Uni? A team of IT guys to go through profiles and check linked accounts for character, much as we all hope they do with politicians sadly not very evident in many cases

Buryyiirwhat · 21/06/2024 15:07

I expect nothing else from a private school than to spend a fortune trying to hide the behaviour of their pupils. Unfortunately.

KitKatChunki · 21/06/2024 15:06

TheaBrandt · 21/06/2024 13:20

The tech is miles ahead of us. This is the tip of the ice berg that is slipping out into the mainstream.

Maybe the only answer is to teach our girls disdain and to be hardened against it? A “that’s not me you sad twat” attitude. I don’t know it’s all so depressing

Yes I agree - like with the Tory who send his pic recently and then leaked all of the personal info on his colleagues - really, does he think people know what it looks like? That they really care? Not like BBC can publish it and no one wants to see it. I think we all need to grow up a step ahead and treat it like a Nigerian Prince scam; it's fake, not them, no more imaginative than those annoying dancing Elves Family Christmas cards that used to be popular.

KitKatChunki · 21/06/2024 14:59

CurrentHun · 21/06/2024 12:21

This is awful. Legislating seems to be the only way out of this if kids (or adults) are accessing tools which they are using for such destructive purposes. It’s way beyond the capacity of schools and the current powers available to police to deal with.

I agree. I listened to a lady on Womans Hour a few months ago saying there is a huge boom in online issues where men are encouraging toddlers to send nudes - truly shocking. She made the point that the software for deep fakes does not NEED to exist and should be legislated against. Edit to add that the toddler thing was that they can then deepfake any kid into any situation and use to bribe families. Really terrifying.

poetryandwine · 21/06/2024 14:59

Mushroomlasagne · 21/06/2024 14:41

Hopefully the perpetrators will go on a sex offender list, the law must catch up and quick. Universities and employers should habitually ask applicants to disclose whether they have eve been involved in inappropriate online behaviour. There need to be tangible and painful repercussions for children and their parents.

Editing to add: schools and universities should have to disclose the number of complaints they have received from students and whether complaints has been upheld as part of a transparent culture. When it affects students and their families' as well as schools' reputation, they may take this more seriously.

Those who temper with other people's images are nasty bullies.

Edited

I don’t see how one could ask applicants about online behaviour except in the context of criminal convictions, sadly.

But I agree that schools, universities and workplaces should be required to have mechanisms for tracking and investigating complaints, and publicly reporting numbers and outcomes as you suggest

Villamariawine · 21/06/2024 14:54

@Mushroomlasagne cross posted before you edited!

OP posts:
Villamariawine · 21/06/2024 14:53

Mushroomlasagne · 21/06/2024 14:41

Hopefully the perpetrators will go on a sex offender list, the law must catch up and quick. Universities and employers should habitually ask applicants to disclose whether they have eve been involved in inappropriate online behaviour. There need to be tangible and painful repercussions for children and their parents.

Editing to add: schools and universities should have to disclose the number of complaints they have received from students and whether complaints has been upheld as part of a transparent culture. When it affects students and their families' as well as schools' reputation, they may take this more seriously.

Those who temper with other people's images are nasty bullies.

Edited

But this is exactly the point i am making. Universities ask for references not school disciplinary instances or indeed records. So off goes Johnny No-Consent-Necessary to University free to continue his ‘activities’ and the Universities collective consciences are clear because they don’t ask the specific question of the schools about Johnny’s record.

A bit like you cannot knowingly lie on a property exchange form, schools should be compelled to disclose to Universities any issues before the fox enters the hen house. If there were consequences to actions maybe not so many would feel emboldened to carry out these types of crimes. They are clearly not afraid of the Law at all.

This is why it is not simply a private school issue - any inaction by any school has potential repercussions on someone else’s child when they attend the same university as the perpetrator.

OP posts:
Mushroomlasagne · 21/06/2024 14:44

*tamper

Mushroomlasagne · 21/06/2024 14:41

Hopefully the perpetrators will go on a sex offender list, the law must catch up and quick. Universities and employers should habitually ask applicants to disclose whether they have eve been involved in inappropriate online behaviour. There need to be tangible and painful repercussions for children and their parents.

Editing to add: schools and universities should have to disclose the number of complaints they have received from students and whether complaints has been upheld as part of a transparent culture. When it affects students and their families' as well as schools' reputation, they may take this more seriously.

Those who temper with other people's images are nasty bullies.

bombastix · 21/06/2024 14:35

It’s not funny @PropertyManager . It’s actually now classed as a sexual offence to make images like these.

PropertyManager · 21/06/2024 14:22

Its not a new phenomenon, just a new technological take - eons ago in the 80's when I was at school a couple of ingenious lads used the school darkroom out of hours to (quite convincingly) graft the head girls head onto a page 3 girls body.

Trays of developer and fixer, and actual skill replaced by software, there's progress for you!

bombastix · 21/06/2024 14:11

TheaBrandt · 21/06/2024 11:52

There was a program on radio 4 - there’s a whole industry devoted to helping men make deep fake porn of women they don’t like / think need taking down a peg or two. Then they all share it with each other. So that’s nice 🙄. So sadly find this article entirely credible .

Girls aren’t perfect but Dd was horrified on seeing the boys group chat. How nasty and vile they were about the girls physically horrible names etc. The girls chat is just not like that.

Well it tells you contrary to the porn is harmless narrative that both men and boys use it to diminish women and girls. So they know it causes emotional harm, and mean it as such. This motivation is to do with power and cruelty: like a lot of sex offending.

Because of the effort, intention to hurt and manipulative nature of this I would like people who do this to get criminal records. The public deserves to be protected from them.

swimlyn · 21/06/2024 14:09

ApoodlecalledPenny · 21/06/2024 10:13

It’s very disappointing that it seems the boys school has gone into protect mode rather than supporting an investigation and punishment.

In my eight years as a governor I saw this ‘secrecy mode’ happen time and time again.

On occasion, there were leaks…

TheaBrandt · 21/06/2024 14:01

Oh I could. Grim stuff has always gone on amongst teens - just now it’s filmed and circulated 🤮

Willyoujustbequiet · 21/06/2024 13:58

SomewhereOverTheHill · 21/06/2024 13:51

@Willyoujustbequiet Thats made me feel physically sick.

I know, it's absolutely horrific. I couldn't believe it when I heard.

SomewhereOverTheHill · 21/06/2024 13:51

@Willyoujustbequiet Thats made me feel physically sick.

Willyoujustbequiet · 21/06/2024 13:45

Our local private school is currently dealing with a scandal...year 9 filmed himself having sex in the toilets with a girl from year 8 and has circulated it.

No need for deep fakes. The real thing is rife in private schools.

Bobbotgegrinch · 21/06/2024 13:45

The one upshot of these deepfakes is that sooner or later every ones going to stop believing any of them

Once everyone knows how easy it is to create a fake nude, then every one is just going to assume that even real explicit photos have just been faked.

For now, it's horrible for these girls, because people assume the pictures are real, but one day the reputational damage just won't exist in the same way it does now.

Its a hell of a dark "bright side", but it exists none the less

timenowplease · 21/06/2024 13:41

Summerhillsquare · 21/06/2024 12:17

Please direct us to the examples of women and girls abusing men in this way.

Why would you assume women or girls would be doing it? I never said that.

TheaBrandt · 21/06/2024 13:24

Frankly feel sorry for schools of whatever type - they are at the coal face having to deal with societies issues.

TheaBrandt · 21/06/2024 13:20

The tech is miles ahead of us. This is the tip of the ice berg that is slipping out into the mainstream.

Maybe the only answer is to teach our girls disdain and to be hardened against it? A “that’s not me you sad twat” attitude. I don’t know it’s all so depressing

Mushroomlasagne · 21/06/2024 13:02

Eww, gross and sleazy. The problem with private schools and even high performing state schools is that they care usually more about their reputation with prospective parents than the rights and dignity of their community. So the private school going into damage control is only to be expected.

This is a technology, lack of values/morals and lack of parental supervision problem but girls are just as bad as creating offensive and violent content as boys. In a local primary school two 10 year old girls created deep fakes with photos stolen from the state school' social media. How would they have known how to do this you ask? From tiktok, silly! The 2 girls are causing so much trouble as their parents allow them on social media without any parental oversight. Get your dc of TT. It's vile.

To keep your own children safe, boys and girls reconsider your permissions for their pictures to go on your school's social media and teachers your dc to be very, very savvy about their online presence. The digital footprints they leave can never be undone.

BeRoseBee · 21/06/2024 13:01

Igmum · 21/06/2024 12:51

This is appalling. Those poor girls. I hope the Police prosecute.

I agree 100% but at the same time I’m a little depressed that the consensus on here is focussed on girls not posting to social media.

Surely the answer is in parents of boys making them very aware that this kind of thing isn’t harmless fun it’s a serious crime.

Igmum · 21/06/2024 12:51

This is appalling. Those poor girls. I hope the Police prosecute.

Purplebunnie · 21/06/2024 12:39

applebutteralmond · 21/06/2024 12:22

This has been coming for a while now and there have already been major issues in parts of Spain for example. Every woman is vulnerable to this as some men will use a photo of pretty much any female they know regardless of attraction and mock it up into porn as soon as this tech becomes accessible to them they will do it for sexual purposes and for their amusement. Many of these men and boys won't even understand how much harm they are doing because they don't see women as properly human.

I don't know what the answer is, there is a lot of push back against the accessibility of porn and how it has popularised practices like choking and negatively affected the sex lives of both men and women but nothing gets done about it and it only seems to grow and become more available taking over more of our culture.

I would be very wary of posting images of myself or allowing images of my daughters online. A friend of mine who worked for a while with police unit which tackled child abuse and CP told me that most abusers of children do not access child pornography at all, instead they use images of the children of friends and family from sites like Facebook to construct their fantasies around. I don't post any images of my kids online and don't allow anyone else to. Obviously when they are older it will be up to them and I am hoping things will be better by then but I don't have a ton of hope.

Edited

Thank you for a very well reasoned post.

I worry about my DD's and DGC's as it does seem to be that more than just Incel groups don't see women as properly human. I don't know how we change this perception