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Original poster

I feel so let down by my dentist, diagnosed with severe periodontitis

81 replies

FuckedFuckedFuckedIt · 20/06/2024 17:57

2 years or so ago my gums started to bleed when I brushed my teeth, not every time and not a great amount but bled nevertheless. I had a lot of sensitivity around one area in particular and thought there might be a problem with the tooth.

My dentist wasn't concerned about it, said the tooth is fine and assured me that most peoples gums bleed at some point or other.

I've had a handful of dentist appointments since then and on two of them X-rays were taken (I needed a filling, and wanted to replace an old silver filling with a white one)

No mention of periodontitis/gum disease.

Regardless, I mentioned wanting to see a hygienist to my dentist as I had a little stain on my front tooth (i was a big tea drinker). I was told that I don't 'need' to see a hygienist because he (dentist) can do all of that. It turns out my practice doesn't actually employ a hygienist. The dentist did a superficial polish on one occasion.

Still no mention of periodontitis.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago the bleeding has ramped up and upon close inspection I can see there is obvious receding of the gum line. I started researching and drew the conclusion that I might have periodontitis. I looked into what I needed to do to manage it, bought an electrical tooth brush, water pik and learned about interdental brushes. After implementing the new routine for 2ish weeks black triangles started to appear between my teeth! I now understand that this is because the inflammation is reducing.

I booked an appointment to see the dentist and said I'm concerned that I have this condition. Only then does he tell me that yes it looks like periodontitis but not to worry as it's treatable and in my case very mild.

I was gutted, but he said he would refer me to see a periodontist.

I saw that periodontist today. I have severe periodontitis that has advanced to bone loss and I would have had this condition for years slowly getting worse. News to me!

If I'd have known, I would have without a shadow of a doubt gone private to have deep cleans and preventative treatments. I'd have started using the interdental brushes, made more of an effort with flossing, bought the water pik much earlier etc.

The periodontist thinks genetics are a factor in my case due to my age and the fact my dental hygiene is reasonably good, although I do admit I haven't always been great with flossing.

I will now be having two deep, deep cleans under the gum line to try and shrink the pockets but have been warned that due to the bone loss - I'm going to be left with sizable gaps between all of my teeth 😔

I asked if my dentist will have known I have this and she said yes, of course he would.

So why remove a superficial stain whilst telling me I don't need to see a hygienist, when you know I have sodding periodontitis and that was exactly what I needed to do.

Why not advise me how I could manage my condition myself? Why was it me, the patient, having to diagnose myself and read up about what I can do to help myself.

I'm devastated and feel like he has completely failed me. If the funding isn't there to treat perio on the NHS then ok, but jesus christ atleast tell me that I have the disease so I can make an informed decision on how to proceed. I would have found the money somehow and could have stopped it progressing this badly.

AIBU to say he has completely failed me?

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
fieldsofbutterflies · 11/07/2024 07:26

So were these cavities missed by the periodontist who treated you as well?

Vettrianofan · 11/07/2024 07:10

FuckedFuckedFuckedIt · 20/06/2024 19:56

I'm so sorry, that's just ghastly. I had no idea about that.

Please, please do seek legal advice because you deserve better than that, we both do.

It's really upsetting to put your trust in a HCP only to be let down miserably.

I feel like such a fool because I was singing my dentists praises not too long ago, talking about what a lovely caring man he is. What a joke.

I'm not surprised people are flocking to Turkey these days if this is the standard of care you get with the NHS. People (including me in the past) laugh about "Turkey teeth" but the alternative here isn't much better is it?!

Show quote history

I have friends who are Romanians and they go back regularly to Romania to get dental treatments.

bfsham · 10/07/2024 22:05

Did the specialist periodontist not detect the 2 carious lesions OP?
I'd just advise caution here OP as hygienists can't definitively diagnose. Either way, I'd recommend registering elsewhere with another general dentist. The trust has gone. Either private or NHS, the best way is to ask for recommendations from people you trust. Good luck.

Original poster
FuckedFuckedFuckedIt · 09/07/2024 16:11

Hi all

I need some perspective please!

So following on from this thread, I found a private hygienist to do a basic clean whilst I wait for the periodontist to do the full one.

So when I saw the hygienist for this scale and polish she pointed out that I have two cavities behind teeth and said that I needed to go back to my dentist to have them sorted.

Here's the thing;

I'd been having a lot of sensitivity from an upper canine which I told my dentist about when I was last there. I specifically asked him whether there was a hole in that exact tooth as it sure felt like there was, but I couldn't see, with it being at the back. He told me unequivocally NO there was no hole.

There is absolutely no way that this was just another 'miss' is there? He would have absolutely known about the gum disease and cavities.

I just want to be sure because I feel completely gaslighted by this man. He clearly has contempt for his NHS patients and gives not a single shit about us if he can't make £££ from it.

I know it's his job and of course he wants to be paid, he isn't working for free, but he still has a duty of care right?

I've sent an email to the dental practice addressed to him informing him of the hygienists findings. I wrote that as he didn't identify or propose treatment during my recent check up can I assume he isn't prepared to treat it as I'd rather not waste both of our time by making an appointment if that's the case. I have asked for his response in writing.

I'm definitely going to the GDC now without a shadow of a doubt.

OP posts:
Original poster
FuckedFuckedFuckedIt · 24/06/2024 11:55

I forgot to add, I'm flossing after every meal too.

PP asked about diabetes and my weight loss journey - I'm not diabetic fortunately. I was two stones overweight but am almost at BMI 25 now and feeling so much better for it.

OP posts:
Original poster
FuckedFuckedFuckedIt · 24/06/2024 11:50

Thank you all for the advice it is much appreciated, and the stories of people being able to stabilise things are really encouraging.

I'm cleaning meticulously twice a day for up to 15 minutes at a time (using a water pik and getting in between every nook and cranny with interdental brushes)

I've got the coconut oil now too and will be starting with that today.

Gengigel should be with me any day now, ordered online. I assume the Gengigel should be the last thing I use so it stays on the gums for as long as possible?

OP posts:
Original poster
FuckedFuckedFuckedIt · 24/06/2024 11:45

bfsham · 24/06/2024 09:23

@Angrymum22
I recognise all those scenarios you describe. Been there and got the T-shirt 🥲

I'm also brutally frank about the clinical situation nowadays. It's the only way. I present the clinical FACTS, up to patients what they want to do with the information from there on in. I'm very sympathetic when patients and parents are then subsequently upset but it's really important to use clear language and not sugarcoat the message.

Whether the OP in this case,was given the true clinical picture 🤷‍♀️ v hard to say- without being there at the time. I'd have to read the clinical notes to decide.

Well I can assure you I wasn't.

Whatever the notes say, the information wasn't shared with me.

I didn't even know what periodontitis was until I came across it via Google.

But as long as its on my notes then that's his back covered isn't it 🙄

I was googling because I wanted to know what was going on with my gums, If I was made aware of the disease I'd already have known and wouldn't have had to go looking and diagnose myself.

OP posts:
Original poster
FuckedFuckedFuckedIt · 24/06/2024 11:40

Angrymum22 · 24/06/2024 08:32

The amount of negligence we see in children’s dental health is criminal. The majority have never seen a dentist. The negligence is from parenting.
If people neglect their teeth then they are just as much part of the problem.
Well before the current health crisis over 40% of the population never saw a dentist, through choice.
It is easy to blame a dentist but I have seen hundreds of patients over the years with perio disease over the years, informing the patient can have several outcomes

  1. they ignore all advice because they don’t think there is a problem
  2. after fully explaining the cause and treatment they accuse you of trying to con them out of money and flounce off. I frequently see flouncers from other practices and confirm they need treatment. They argue that appointments with the hygienist are a waste of money and flounce again
  3. the patients who nod along while you carefully explain and then tell you that they trust that you will sort it out. At every subsequent appointment they have made zero effort to clean their teeth because they assume you have a magic wand - we don’t!
  4. the super indignant patient who spends a fortune on nails, Botox and lip fillers whose mouth is like a cesspit because the budget doesn’t extend to a toothbrush. Well if it does it remains unused. These are the ones who claim you have no idea what you are talking about and they can’t possibly have period disease because they brush 60trillion times a day.
  5. and then there are the truly wonderful patients who remember what you tell them and engage with the treatment plan, fess up if they have let their standards drop and put it right. Those are the patients who will keep their teeth longer. But throughout they are aware that there is no cure and they may potentially loose all their teeth eventually.

It is awful having to tell a patient they have perio disease, particularly if they have had a healthy mouth up until then.
Being brutally honest doesn’t always go well, in the past I have tried the gentle route but patients often fail to understand the gravity of their situation. So now I go brutal and paint the worst case scenario so that even if the patient goes into denial I can record that we have given them all the information. They may go elsewhere but at least they have all the info they need.

Negligence can be applied to the patient who fails to acknowledge their diagnosis. It can also apply to parents and carers who neglect the health and well being of children and young adults.
The definition of negligence
negligence

noun

  1. failure to take proper care over something.

So I would argue that after a lifetime of working in dentistry most patients are negligent to varying degrees in the care of their teeth.

Show quote history

But do you think it's acceptable to withhold such a serious diagnosis? Because I don't.

OP posts:
Gumgumsgums · 24/06/2024 10:06

20 years ago I was told I would need extensive treatment by a periodontist. Handed a bill for over £600.

25 years ago I had seen an NHS dentist for a check up. The very same evening my face was swollen, one area of my gums red and in agony. Three lots of antibiotics later this dentist tried to claim it was gum disease.

For several years I had a very small area which felt "itchy" I saw many dentists and NHS maxifacial specialist. No answers. I also developed a burning sensation in the roof of my mouth. I was told how to brush, what dental sticks to use. The last NHS dentist I saw told me "you are brushing your gums away" yep.....all that advice followed but they still had to blame me.

Five years into this hell that last NHS dentist made the periodontist referral. I was told "it's fine we have caught this in time" here's a bill to pay up front. I never went back. I couldn't afford it.

I have since only seen a private dentist with access to regular hygienist. Every 6m for a few years. She diagnosed oral allergy syndrome. Told me I was indeed brushing my gums away.

I discovered oil pulling. When I saw the hygienist she said "I don't have anything I can do" you don't require this appointment" she was amazed.

In short, NHS dentist introduced a terrible infection into my gum. I suffered for years, and was told it was my fault. I was told I'd loose my teeth without expensive treatment. My oral allergy syndrome was also apparently due to my inability to brush my teeth "correctly" and then to over brushing my teeth.

I have all my teeth, I no longer even require the hygienist. The "itch" occasionally crops up in that one small area of gum. I have antibiotics if required. It seems that will perhaps never be completely resolved, and no one can tell me why. My gums are fine, the bone fine, teeth white and no fillings whatsoever. Never had a filling because.....you guessed it I looked after my teeth!

Oil pulling......try it, its fab. Whatever you do next, only do so after you have a second opinion. And best wishes

Annanana37 · 24/06/2024 09:42

I was in this position a few years ago, and asked the dentist why, as I had been going every 6 months all my life, had this not been spotted.
Their reply..ask the Practice Manager !
I did and of course what could he say.
Anyway, I had deep cleans, one quarter of my mouth at a time, and it did the trick. Gums perfectly tight and healthy.
Now I have issues with old crowns that have slipped, decay below, and have to replace privately. Very expensive.
I hope you get your treatment sorted out ASAP. Good luck

bfsham · 24/06/2024 09:23

@Angrymum22
I recognise all those scenarios you describe. Been there and got the T-shirt 🥲

I'm also brutally frank about the clinical situation nowadays. It's the only way. I present the clinical FACTS, up to patients what they want to do with the information from there on in. I'm very sympathetic when patients and parents are then subsequently upset but it's really important to use clear language and not sugarcoat the message.

Whether the OP in this case,was given the true clinical picture 🤷‍♀️ v hard to say- without being there at the time. I'd have to read the clinical notes to decide.

Angrymum22 · 24/06/2024 08:32

BlackFriYay · 22/06/2024 19:12

Get a grip of yourself woman. It's negligent for a health care professional not to make a patient aware that they have a serious disease, how could you think that it isn't?

As poor a choice smoking may be, it's completely unacceptable to withhold the diagnosis and rob somebody of the opportunity to tackle the issue at the earliest opportunity... just because they used to smoke.

Fucking ridiculous.

Edited
Show quote history

The amount of negligence we see in children’s dental health is criminal. The majority have never seen a dentist. The negligence is from parenting.
If people neglect their teeth then they are just as much part of the problem.
Well before the current health crisis over 40% of the population never saw a dentist, through choice.
It is easy to blame a dentist but I have seen hundreds of patients over the years with perio disease over the years, informing the patient can have several outcomes

  1. they ignore all advice because they don’t think there is a problem
  2. after fully explaining the cause and treatment they accuse you of trying to con them out of money and flounce off. I frequently see flouncers from other practices and confirm they need treatment. They argue that appointments with the hygienist are a waste of money and flounce again
  3. the patients who nod along while you carefully explain and then tell you that they trust that you will sort it out. At every subsequent appointment they have made zero effort to clean their teeth because they assume you have a magic wand - we don’t!
  4. the super indignant patient who spends a fortune on nails, Botox and lip fillers whose mouth is like a cesspit because the budget doesn’t extend to a toothbrush. Well if it does it remains unused. These are the ones who claim you have no idea what you are talking about and they can’t possibly have period disease because they brush 60trillion times a day.
  5. and then there are the truly wonderful patients who remember what you tell them and engage with the treatment plan, fess up if they have let their standards drop and put it right. Those are the patients who will keep their teeth longer. But throughout they are aware that there is no cure and they may potentially loose all their teeth eventually.

It is awful having to tell a patient they have perio disease, particularly if they have had a healthy mouth up until then.
Being brutally honest doesn’t always go well, in the past I have tried the gentle route but patients often fail to understand the gravity of their situation. So now I go brutal and paint the worst case scenario so that even if the patient goes into denial I can record that we have given them all the information. They may go elsewhere but at least they have all the info they need.

Negligence can be applied to the patient who fails to acknowledge their diagnosis. It can also apply to parents and carers who neglect the health and well being of children and young adults.
The definition of negligence
negligence

noun

  1. failure to take proper care over something.

So I would argue that after a lifetime of working in dentistry most patients are negligent to varying degrees in the care of their teeth.

BlackFriYay · 22/06/2024 19:12

Angrymum22 · 22/06/2024 17:46

On whose part though. It’s no secret that smoking causes longterm health problems. Is the patient negligent for smoking?

Show quote history

Get a grip of yourself woman. It's negligent for a health care professional not to make a patient aware that they have a serious disease, how could you think that it isn't?

As poor a choice smoking may be, it's completely unacceptable to withhold the diagnosis and rob somebody of the opportunity to tackle the issue at the earliest opportunity... just because they used to smoke.

Fucking ridiculous.

DeathNote11 · 22/06/2024 18:04

I had a very similar experience & now have a mouth full of implants & an empty savings account. I fly to Albania annually for my remaining few natural molars checking, I don't trust UK dentists. I feel like I've been hit twice by these profiteering crooks, I was one of the thousands of children who were abused by dentists in the 70s - unnecessary fillings & extractions all in the name of profit. I'll never visit a UK dentists again & neither do my children.

Cookiecrumblepie · 22/06/2024 17:54

If it is negligence and she wins a case she might get money she could put towards future dental treatment etc

Cookiecrumblepie · 22/06/2024 17:54

@Angrymum22 the OP seems to think the dentist is negligent. She should get some free advice to work out whether she could have a claim. I’m not a lawyer but that’s my advice to OP. See a lawyer and get advice.

Angrymum22 · 22/06/2024 17:46

Cookiecrumblepie · 22/06/2024 17:43

Its negligence

On whose part though. It’s no secret that smoking causes longterm health problems. Is the patient negligent for smoking?

Cookiecrumblepie · 22/06/2024 17:43

Its negligence

pambeesleyhalpert · 22/06/2024 15:32

Cookiecrumblepie · 20/06/2024 19:40

Go to a no win no fee lawyer and sue

Oh fgs don't be ridiculous

xx18921 · 21/06/2024 22:16

Also genetic over here, went private 6 weeks post partum as my gums had gotten awful as part of pregnancy. I had quarterly scale and polish pre covid at my nhs dentist so it wasn't new news. Found out I had an impacted wisdom tooth, a filling need replacing and that I had some bone loss. I also got sent with private referral to a specialist who again said I couldn't do any more with my hygiene and that it was genetic ( I don't smoke etc). Had intensive three time deep clean with hygienist then signed up to the private plan with two deep cleans a year but I usually do one extra although that's now dropped off. Now totally stable and dental team happy but I still have pockets but they weirdly don't bleed or cause issues so I'm abit of outlier. Anyway just to say it can be made better.

Hankunamatata · 21/06/2024 22:06

I have an nhs dentist but pay privately for whole family to see a hygienist every 3 to 6 months.

EatCrow · 21/06/2024 22:00

Op, you have my sympathy. I’ve recently had a traumatic time with a dentist and it’s left me in a mess. Just a word of caution, you’ve had a lot of good advice regarding products going forward but it wouldn’t be advisable to use them all together. Do your homework on all of them and chose the ones that will help the most, get advice if necessary. I’m the same and panic buy a lot of stuff (happened with vitamins) and it’s an expensive mistake.

Posting a link to a dentist in America, you can sign up for his newsletter and he gives all his info for free. He goes into the breathing problem too and explains how to correct it. He’s big on carnivore for health (not sure if you will be interested in that?) but it’s there if so. I make sure to eat as much meat and fish as I can. https://www.kevinstock.io/

We are seeing the results now of a very broken health system, it is no longer a worry for the future, it’s been going on in dentistry for a very long time, insidiously so.

Would be very interested to see how you get on and welcome any updates. (No pressure though, I know devestating it is and how you will be feeling).

Good luck.

Start Here - Kevin Stock

Dr. Kevin Stock - Access the Meat Mouth Keynote, Carnivore Guides and Articles, the Saturday 7 newsletter, his book, music, art, and more.

https://www.kevinstock.io/

Illstartexercisingtomorrow · 21/06/2024 20:36

MrsSambora · 21/06/2024 17:20

I'm really sorry to hear this is I happening to you. But I can really sympathise as I am in exactly the same position as you. I go to the dentist every 6 months, and the only problem I've ever had was 2 small fillings 15 years ago. I've been through 4 NHS dentists in about 5 years at the same practice as they keep leaving. They might clean my teeth of a bit of tartar on my middle bottom teeth once a year, occasionally twice, but they have never mentioned a problem. Two months ago I attended my regular 6 month appt and it was another new dentist. He took one look, took an X-ray and told me I have 50% bone loss at the bottom front 4 middle teeth. I had to have them cleaned after having an anaesthetic because it hurt so much.
I was so stunned at the time I just accepted it and cried all the way home, really traumatized (I don't like the dentist anyway!)
But like you I've been doing my research and now realise this should have been caught/mentioned much earlier so that I could have at least prevented any further damage as much as I could. I am so angry and I'm now getting facial paralysis, feelings of like ants walking over my chin and it hurts when I bite. I didn't have any of this before the last clean!
I am seriously considering reporting the dentist but have too much going on elsewhere to have the strength to do it.
Also the dentists advice to manage it was "just get an interdental brush". I was already doing this!
Honestly I get the feeling that NHS patients are an inconvenience as we don't make them enough money.

Edited

I don’t get what you wanted the most recent dentist to do?

Previous ones didn’t mention the gum disease and you’re upset, but the one who did diagnose it and start treating it you’re considering reporting??

It’s not their fault if your teeth have not been cleaned properly or you have bone loss which means a clean will hurt afterwards.

Angrymum22 · 21/06/2024 19:24

FuckedFuckedFuckedIt · 21/06/2024 08:18

I'm sorry that happened to you too, bakebeans.

It's so frustrating. I know what you mean about there being drug addicts with better gums than ex smokers.

The periodontist explained why some people are more predisposed than others and why, in those cases, the person is at a higher risk regardless of an ex smoking status.. so just because you once smoked that's not to say the disease starting is our fault. It doesn't help matters of course, but it isn't the root cause.

She also spoke about the different types of good and bad bacteria and how those of us with perio tend to have a more aggressive type. I'm sure the dentists among us can expand on that as I was a blubbering wreck at that point and can't recall word for word.

Now I know what I have I've realised that my mum and aunt likely both have it too. My mum lost teeth and needed a partial denture and my aunt has massive gaps between all of her teeth. They just didn't really speak about it. Embarrassment most likely. My mum never smoked.

I've been thinking back on my last several appointments with my dentist and just remembered something else which has now just pissed me off even more.

On one occasion, two or three visits ago, after I mentioned wanting to see a hygienist and him telling me I didn't need to, I asked whether he would be doing a clean for me and he told me that I could do it and that it was my "homework"

What the hell is that about? That's not acceptable is it?

To be fair ,OP, having your teeth cleaned every three months will have no effect on your perio disease if you are not cleaning them thoroughly on a daily basis.

I use to spend a lot of time demonstrating brushing, advising on brushes and products. Now we have the internet, there are some brilliant videos showing you how to use products. In addition there are electric toothbrushes that use apps to visually show whether you have cleaned everywhere.

Spend some time watching a few videos. There are better ways to clean rather than oil pulling. Water picks are more effective, jet washers for teeth. You can also add medicated mouthwash to the water.
A combination of general brushing, interproximal brushing and water pick and floss for smaller gaps, is required.

Set aside a good 15 per day for cleaning. You don’t have to do everything at the same time, I tend to use floss and interproximal brushes while I’m watching tv in the evening. I can often spend 20mins cleaning. Then brush using an electric brush before bed or in the shower.

Dont despair. I have had plenty of patients who have managed to control their perio disease. From experience home care is the most important part of treatment and one which you can control.

bfsham · 21/06/2024 19:09

OP sorry to hear this. You mention you're on a weight loss program, are you entirely sure you don't have diabetes? Have you had your H1ABC tested if your BMI is over 25?
You may already have read about this, but smoking (also ex-smokers) and diabetes are the risk factors that are the crucial ones used in the UK :

www.bsperio.org.uk/

If there is diabetes, it's really important to get it stable as periodontitis is REALLY difficult to control otherwise.

Best wishes.

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