6 year child - stranger talking about her penis

Great post.

But OMG. I can’t believe this. And yet I can 😫

Andrew Gold discusses how he met a woman in Germany who works with men who admit they are attracted to children but don't act on it. So to prove her faith in them she lets them babysit her own children. 🤦‍♀️

Ultimately it's very easy to be accepting of men who want to wear dresses, without anyone having to suffer as a result.

So long as we never lose sight of the basic biological fact that they are men - and therefore all the societal rules we apply to men are still necessary.

“Inclusivity will always have costs and be paid for by the least powerful.”

WTF, Allshallbewell?!

The most powerful have always been included!

True inclusivity is supposed to be about making room for the least powerful, who have traditionally been excluded!

You're actually advocating for making life easier for those who already have it easier at the expense of the most marginalised and vulnerable? And you think that's progress??

One of the great coups of the trans rights movement was to position men who identify as women as more vulnerable and marginalised than actual women; to position women as more powerful and privileged than those men.

Women have been expected to swallow our discomfort and budge up, make room in the scarce bit of public space we had, for people who without the cloak of trans “marginalisation” are simply men.

This is why the drive to prevent women from recognising and naming these men as men has been so intense and vicious.

Once you undo that sleight of hand, you reveal that this is men taking away from women; the relatively powerful taking away from the relatively powerless.

“Inclusion” as it is practised today is actually exclusion of the genuinely more marginalised, vulnerable sex: female people. Women and girls.

She?? It was a bloody bearded man, not a woman. Transwomen who are genuinely trans, do not attend garden parties wearing a full beard.

FFS. Stop making excuses for these perverts.

It has nothing to do with inclusiveness. It has to do with men wanting access to women's spaces and unconsenting women.

Every time a male person is included in womanhood or in women's spaces, female people are excluded.

Sport is the most obvious example. Every male athlete qualifying in or winning in a women's category represents a female athlete not qualifying or winning.

In single sex spaces, women with particular religious beliefs or trauma responses to men are forced to self exclude if male people are included.

Even the definition of womanhood, if it is changed to include some male people, will necessary exclude some female people because they will not fit whatever the new criteria are.

It's not about inclusiveness. It's about male domination.

The gender ideology has partly come out of being a very inclusive society, it's a product of saying all are welcome here. Inclusivity will always have costs and be paid for by the least powerful.

And when you say 'all are welcome here' presumably that will eventually include the pedophiles and the bestialists also? Because why not? And those costs will be paid by the vulnerable also.

Jesus, I didn't think I could be further shocked by views expressed on here, but this is quite something

Biggest mystery of modern times apparently 🤔

Inclusivity will always have costs and be paid for by the least powerful.

Examples?

Thanks, glad if it helped clarify.

And I think you’re spot on, I suspect that’s exactly why he did it.

And as TheKeatingFive said, there’s no shame in being afraid to call it out - this is your livelihood, your life, and as we’ve seen from the many court cases, lots of woman (and a few men) have lost their jobs/lost work, even their own companies for daring to challenge - in the mildest of ways - this groupthink.

And there have been many more women who lost their jobs and simply didn’t have the resources or the wherewithal to take their employers to tribunal but simply moved on.

You are one of very, very many women being silenced by this toxic culture.

Keating5,

I am happy to disagree and agree with people on all sides. The gender ideology has partly come out of being a very inclusive society, it's a product of saying all are welcome here. Inclusivity will always have costs and be paid for by the least powerful.

I just am a pragmatist - we need to work with this as Hilary Cass has and the American swimming associations have. We need to work with what's happening without sounding like fascists. We want to work together in the future, there's no other ideal world to live in.

I think we have to acknowledge that some expressions of human sexuality are not good/positive things.

On the one hand, we do accept that, when certain concepts are mentioned explicitly (pedophilia for example).

On the other hand, there's an almost jerk reaction these days when people hear words like 'inclusivity' and 'acceptance' - that this must be positive. But society needs lines and boundaries. It cannot be that just anything goes.

Allshallbewell2021 · Today 08:35

3] saying penis to a child is not sexual assault

But under some circumstances, it can be considered to be a sex offence. Perhaps not in this case, but at the very least, it was shockingly inappropriate of him to speak like that.

I don't care if some men want to wear dresses and call themselves by women's names. I do care, however, if the breach the norms of normal behaviour, as this guy did, even if you want to be generous and pass it off as him trying to explain simply, but clumsily. He should have known better.

You're quite close to getting it.

The thing is, if you don't believe a trans woman should be housed in a women's prison or competing in women's sport, you don't believe they are women.

If you go along with this idea that a person with a penis can be a woman if they say that's how they feel, don't then be surprised when your daughter has to compete against one in sport or God forbid she needs rape crisis support and she's told she's bigoted for objecting to one in her support group.

Because you and all other right thinking progressive people have been saying they are women. You can't agree that they are women and then object to them being treated as though they are women in the only situations where we actually distinguish between women and men. If you think they should be treated as men in the situations where we distinguish between women and men, that's because you think they are men. So you need to be brave enough to say so.

The reason we are all being forced to go along with this nonsense, the reason why the OP is too afraid to say anything about her male cross dressing colleague talking about his penis to her six year old daughter, is because society has accepted the idea that it's bigoted to say that these people are men.

I certainly don't want to be open-minded at any cost but I also believe it's hard to be in a truly pluralistic society without everyone potentially having to put up with things they find uncomfortable and even wrong

There's being pluralistic and there's being okay with people doing sex things in public. Most societies draw a line there. If you're dressed in your fetish gear, be it rubber, dressed like a little doggy and walking round on all 4s, dressed as a baby, a woman, whatever, and you're not queuing outside a club or other event then you're intentionally involving people automatically and without consent in your sex shit. I'm not cool with that

But the deliberate use on this forum to misgender is frankly disgusting.

What you need to realise is that that is your POV, your opinion, not an objectively true fact.

My POV is that your stance is frankly disgusting.

I believe that colluding with (what I see as) the lie that some men “are” women is promoting an ideology and culture which to my mind is disgustingly bigoted (misogynistic and homophobic), and dangerous to children.

I personally am disgusted every time I hear wrong sex pronouns used for a male person, particularly; every time a male person is referred to as a woman, transwoman, trans woman, or transgender woman.

I hate the blatant misogyny behind this terminology - as I see it - and the homophobia, especially lesbophobia, it gives rise to. Suggesting that some “lesbians” have a penis, and that lesbians who aren’t interested in “girldick” full stop are “transphobic bigots” is really, really disgusting to me.

Suggesting that it’s reasonable to put male rapists in women’s prisons, or have male people competing in women’s sports, or have male attendees at a “women only” rape support group - just disgusting. All these, along with many other harms, are inevitable consequences of saying some male people are women, or a kind of woman, and referring to them as if they were.

So you can get down off your high horse and just remember that to me, and many others like me, you’re the bigot.

Because this person was clearly a weirdo

Don't be ashamed. An extremely toxic environment has been created (deliberately) which makes it very difficult to speak up for the truth and basic decency.

its very insidious.

@Italianita harsh, but I'm inclined to agree!

What does 'woman' mean?

If only there were a simple, three word definition of what 'woman' means! I suppose it shall have to forever remain a mystery...

Oh come on, a bearded man in a dress, of course young children are going to be confused!

For anyone who thinks the march of 'progress' and 'inclusivity' is always a good thing. Here is a cautionary tale for you.

I came across this story about 4 years ago and honestly, I've never been more shocked by anything in my life.

https://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/past-pedophile-links-haunt-german-green-party-a-899544.html

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2021/07/26/the-german-experiment-that-placed-foster-children-with-pedophiles

I find it very odd that you can call out so many issues with the gender cult and yet you still feel we should roll over and run with it.

Because why? Young people are into it? What if they're totally wrong? What if it's really problematic for society?

I also find all this language of 'loving' and 'positivity' very hard to stomach. There is no love and respect for women's / children's needs here.

The 'love and positivity' seems to be weighted very heftily towards troubled men. Why do you think they deserve all of this that you're denying to genuinely vulnerable people?

So just to clarify, you think it's positive social change to de stigmatise talking about penises to strangers - is that what you're saying?

No! I really don't like it! It wouldn't be great at all - but if it was a work do then I would not want to address it for fear of looking like TERF.

I think to extrapolate a whole argument from this one act is too limiting. The man said this to acknowledge very inappropriately, the contradiction between his masc/fem presentation. He shouldn't have done that. But this is going to keep happening so I'm assuming that and looking forward. What else can we do? Should OP have gone and said something? I wouldn't have .