To think Primary School Teacher could be a great job?

@ThrallsWife your list of admin tasks had me feeling The Stress just reading it - do you have a union rep though? At one of the schools where I worked and still know the union rep he has successfully resisted teachers making attendance calls/monitoring attendance or updating displays/boards. It’s in a MAT too.

Gosh your clients must be really awful if they’re worse than many disruptive pupils. I can’t imagine having a chair thrown at my head by an adult or being kicked in the legs or threatened and sworn at by adults. Are you in the police?

also - what do you mean by marking and planning, try having your teams pinging all hours? Teachers are emailed at all hours by parents and senior staff- did you think they only took marking and planning home?

interested also to know which bits of an audit you found more stressful than ofsted? I’m presuming you’ve experienced both to be able to compare?

I suppose any stressful demanding corporate job could be great too. I’m the opposite and know of people who hated the stress of teaching but excelled in corporate roles without an issue. Why are you focussing on primary teaching- are you hoping to make the switch from corporate to primary? Or just hoping this will descend into a teacher bashing thread where teachers honestly answer a question and then get accused of moaning all the time?

I have several family members and friends who are teachers some love it others are just waiting for a suitable job/children to be less dependent. All depends on the senior management (can be very nasty) and parents (either too pushy or couldn't care less).

About half of my immediate family are teachers, mostly in primary, some secondary.

I have nothing but respect for their hard work and commitment. It's a job I couldn't do. It's demanding. It's hard.

However, there are some incredible benefits that teachers have.

First is purpose. They are literally changing lives. I work in marketing. It can be fun and interesting but its hard to see how I make any kind of difference to the world. The stories my family tell are moving and incredible.

Second is pensions. Teachers pensions aren't what they were, but employers still pay nearly 30% of salary into a pension scheme! My private sector employer pays 3%!

Third is... holidays. Yes, I know teachers work in their holidays. But they still get 13 weeks! I get 28 days. It's just not comparable.

"I think there is less accountability asked of teachers than there are in other professions. But they seem to feel really hard done by when questioned. "

You're clearly on the wind-up. Teaching is highly scrutinised and micro-managed, and even though many variables are outside of our control we are being held to account for everything regarding a student's conduct, attitude to learning and actual attainment.

This week alone:

• register, then in-class live email trail about students missing from class (if a student isn't in my class I have to report it within the first 10min of the lesson - fun when other stuff kicks off at the same time): I have to start the trail, then keep an eye out for responses and repeat this after half an hour if the student is still not there: around 15x this week, taking up a total of 30min, excluding the register itself (only 2min/pupil)
• email responses to parental questions re. homework and behaviour: 6x this week, taking up around 1.5h of my time in total (multiple emails back and forth between parent and me regarding one bit of homework because they had difficulty with the app)
• phone calls to parents re. behaviour (required), star of the week (required), attendance (required) - around 45min/ day (they are "only a quick call" but I've had multiple sets of parents on the phone for 10-15min at a time), all also recorded on our communications platform to prove I have made said phone calls (because the phone log isn't enough, apparently)
• we had a deep dive into my subject, which involved paperwork to show we had carried out student voice, book trawls, learning walks, staff voice, weekly subject updates, updating seating plans and annotations, updating SEND information because a few students had been moved classes this week - given that most of this was paperwork from other weeks, I'd say about an hour prep for this, gathering all the information, printing etc.
• student information requests - 2 this week, taking 30min each to fill in as each required evidence
• safeguarding - 2 incidents this week, taking 20min each to record with all the details the form requires and then follow-up with the DSL
• data tracker updates with recent marking and grades - 10min per test (3 tests this week) - marking said tests around 45min each
• updating the form board (required and monitored weekly) - finding information, printing, backing and actually attaching - around 45min
• reporting yet another leak in my classroom (that has, apparently, been fixed twice in the 6 weeks we have been back) - 10min
• daily pigeon hole checks and handing out paperwork to students - 3min/day (15min total)
• logging all of the week's practicals and risk assessments on our online system - 1.5h

We are on 14h 40min paperwork per week if my maths is correct, or 3h 6min/day on top of teaching, planning, meetings, duties and all the other bits, which take place between 8.30am and 4pm. Suddenly, taking all of these together, we are on over 10h 15min/day easily, and that is pure work, not any of the bits that make said work possible (walking between rooms, verbal updates with colleagues, booting up IT equipment, breaks/ lunches to go to the loo and shove food in, getting books/ pens/ textbooks etc.). So a school day ends up being around 12h/day.

I agree, this is like our school.

Compared to a corporate job in the city with immense pressure (I know several people who have committed suicide), teaching is not as hard.

I think teachers have become more openly vocal and critical post COVID. I don't necessarily think it's because the job has got worse.

I think there is less accountability asked of teachers than there are in other professions. But they seem to feel really hard done by when questioned. And I'm not talking about "Jonny says he didn't draw a knife even though it's on CCTV" I'm talking "Jonny is a little bit bored going number bonds to ten for the seventh consecutive year can he please have something slightly more challenging, if it's not a problem, please thanks very much" (bow bow scrape scrape).

@Viavita and when you'd been teaching as long as I had, you'd heard all these supposedly new initiatives before under different names, over the years.

Just endlessly reinventing the wheel with NQTs looking at experienced staff as if they're dinosaurs

@RaraRachael exactly, it's all the other shit.
We'd have endless meetings and training sessions on how to teach creatively to engage children, to meet differing needs, etc, then told repeatedly we all had to teach the same so the children's books looked the same.
I couldn't get my head around that.

The actual teaching of the children was what I loved but there was just too much other shit to put up with.

It was bad enough in Scotland but from what I've heard, it's a lot worse in England.

I wouldn't advise anyone to go into teaching.

I was a primary school teacher for 30 years and I loved it. Unfortunately, it became part of a MAT, and looking back I was definitely pushed out. But, I'd seen it coming and put a plan ( financial) in place. I left 6 years ago. I'm now a cleaner and love that, too.
I miss the creative side but I have grandchildren and do lots of fun things with them !

I've been a primary teacher for 10 years, and the first 5 I loved it...then I think eventually you burn out, but I am also a single mum.
I think your cohort helps. For example, in 10 years, I've never had a class that doesn't have at least 2 EHCP children and 3 SEN support. And also 1 child that is 'voilent'. It hasn't ever bothered me as I've known no different, but I hear from teachers who have never been hit/spat at/bitten/kicked (that was just yesterday) and bet they love the teaching.

Teaching is wonderful (when you make it through a lesson without the disruptions), and the children are a huge positive. Even the kicking ones appreciate you, really.

Just don't go into teaching thinking it's 30 children who want to listen and learn.

I wonder what all the paperwork is

Really? Where do you think the lessons come from? Tailored and re-tailored to meets needs? That’s for every subject maths English guided reading science history geography PE forest school - all need to be planed for each hour of each day and then notes to see if it was successful and then mark the kids work to gauge their understanding - plus you have SEN targets, kids with extra support, on top of social services, phycologists, doctors etc to deal with then there’s the team meetings etc -

The only thing I miss about teaching is the children, as many have pointed out its the planning, marking, meetings which are pointless, in my last position we had 3 meetings a week when I asked why was told by my SLT it was because that what she wanted and that's what we would do! She also marked me down on all observations because I queried why so many meetings. Everyone thinks that teachers finish as soon as the children go that's not the case and all those holidays? You don't get those weeks off as you are busy playing catch up!
My husband worked out with the amount of hours I was earning less the minimum wage, tired and stressed all the time. Think long and hard before being a teacher.

That’s exactly what it is.

I never realised until I saw it first hand just how stressful the job is. (2 ex-teachers in the family.) So much planning, paperwork, report writing, safeguarding reports, organising etc. Dealing with a variety of pupils/learners/students (and parents) who have challenging behaviour, additional needs, English as a second language- not to mention unsupportive SLT.
They have both left- not because of the children- both loved this part! But the rest of the bull poo that went with it. Both much happier with free time now and less stressed.
And people wonder why there’s a shortage
Hats off to teachers 👏🏼👏🏼

I wonder (as I’m an early years teacher and this is almost all children figure out all day long - how to be around others, gain residence and stamina) if covid meant that some children missed out on socialising with peers and other adults in their early years and missed out figuring this out?

I love my job but it’s the hardest career I’ve ever had - far harder than DH’s and he gets paid x4 what I do.

I’m an early years teacher.

I now work part time because full time is too much at my age.

We often joke at work that everyone should spend a day as a teacher and see what it’s actually like!

I truly love it though. But I’ve quit the state sector and would never go back. I now work in a private preschool. I feel guilt about that, but I can’t do state again. Ratios too big, not enough funding, learning pressure too much far too young (I believe strongly it should be follow the child, play based etc). We have a lovely ratio and it’s STILL a very hard job.

As with everything, it depends what you’re comparing it with and what you’re used to.

If you’re used to highly stressful and joyless 12 hour days with corporate wankers, then teaching quite possibly will be a breeze in comparison. The pay won’t be the same and you’ll still work in the evenings and deal with the odd dickhead manager, but you will also laugh every day and make a huge difference to young lives. And you will get well-deserved holidays.

YABU.

I worked in a stressful corporate job pre DC. Long days, weekends away working and week-long international conferences.

That was a walk in the park compared to teaching!

EHCP funding applications and supporting documentation

SEND profiles/targets/target updates/provision maps

Recording safeguarding concerns / follow up meetings on confidential systems

Recording pupil behaviour /medical concerns and actions on confidential systems

Admin/planning/risk assessments for visits and residentials, including chasing up responses/ lunch requests/medication and forms

Analysis of data for your own classes and entry onto internal system

Analysis of data for the subjects you lead and report preparation for governors/ ofsted

Reports of book scrutinies / pupil voice/ colleague voice for governors/ofsted

action plans for your subjects with termly updates

preparation of orders for your subject and budget management

Weekly targets/feedback for any student teachers you have

personalised communication with parents

termly curriculum outlines for parents

preparation of data and evidence for performance management

write up of appraisals for anyone you manage

organisation of parents evenings / printouts of data and information for parents

preparation of rotas

Long term curriculum plans- often unnecessarily rewritten based on the whims of SLT
Medium term plans for your class
Medium term plans for your subjects
Short term plans

Pupils aren't clients anyway. They are in your care. Teachers have safeguarding responsibilities and in some circumstances can even consent to medical treatment if noone can get hold of a parent in time like on a trip. It's a very different concept.

A parent is closer to a client.

Was about to say the same thing. It’s likely your clients physically and verbally abuse you. And I f they did, I bet you wouldn’t be told that was acceptable or have your Union say that was part of the job now.

I loved working with kids. Building relationships, watching progress... It has the potential to be a great job.

But I left after 30 years because the stuff outside the classroom took over my life. I started dreading Monday morning at about 2pm on Saturday.

I spent all Sunday on a laptop writing in tedious detail what I would do the following week and what mistakes and misconceptions children might have. Literally inventing potential difficulties that: a child who is exceeding expectations might have,
a misconception a child meeting expectations might have,
and a misconception a child not meeting expectations might have.

Ooh. And a misconception that a Romanian child might have.
And then I'd have to list how I would address each of those misconceptions because obviously I couldn't be trusted to just think on my feet and say, "No, tigers don't eat elephants because they don't live in Africa".

Meanwhile, my friend who trained here and then moved home to Ireland opens the book on page 12, teaches the lesson and gives them the homework on page 14. She goes home at 4pm and says nothing on earth would drag her back to the UK.