To think Primary School Teacher could be a great job?

I love teaching! The interactions with the children are (mostly) fab!

But I hate my job. I hate the admin. The data. The paperwork. The behaviour management reporting. It's not family friendly. It has long hours. I have to meet data targets (aka get children to achieve ridiculous expectations given their age). The 5h1t from parents. The never being good enough. The observations. The lack of respect from some children, reiterated by their parents. The language that comes out of he childrens mouths these days. The expectation that we'll potty train/teach them how to brush their teeth/tie their shoes/put their coats and jumpers on/etc etc, in addition to the curriculum. I hate testing small children, YR baseline, Y1 phonics screening, Y2 SATS, Y4 timetables, Y6 SATS. The pressure on them and me. I hate telling parents their child hasn't met the expectations. I hate the current teaching fad which we must spend hours pouring over in meetings and twilights and INSETS just to be dropped the following year in favour and a new fad. I hate the change of language that makes the world of difference e.g. differentiation to adaptation when actually it's the same thing. I hate the class sizes, I hate that I can't nurture my charges as much as I'd like individually. I hate that my TA gets pulled left right and centre so that I don't have the support we need in our class. I hate that there isn't the money to buy new resources or to replace the broken ones we have. I hate the lack of glue sticks and the expectations that everything is still stuck in books orderly. I hate not being able to pee when I need to.

I love teaching. I hate my job as a state schools primary teacher.

I did leave. I don't work there anymore.

I'm talking about one of my previous jobs.

It really is the best and the worst. Being in the classroom is golden and the best feeling when you can see your groundwork and preparation making a real difference to someone's learning.

After three decades in various roles in education, currently teaching primary (again) I'm finally considering my options.

I can hands down say that I know more about and spend more time on the minutiae of scores of other people's kids' lives than I do my own two DC. It's been like it forever.

This weekend, I'm all blocked out: all school related. Online CPD, online meetings with other colleagues to plan new units of work, preparing to renew classroom displays, data-crunching, submitting assessment data, labelling new sets of books, generating individualised targets and reviewing bespoke provision for SEN pupils. Plus preparing for two lesson observations next week and subsequent book-looks, and performance management review. And acknowledging and responding to the ever-mounting correspondence.

It's not an anomaly; most weekends are like this and we're not even an 'Outstanding' school, just a normal primary.

What's tipped me over the edge is talking to former colleagues who have left teaching who say they don't even miss the holidays because they have their evenings and weekends back, and over the course of a year, this more than makes up for it.

I've had two brilliant TAs in the last two years who both joined us with a view to becoming teachers but who have now back-pedalled and bowed out; they can see it's a trap. The cosh which perpetually hangs over our heads is: "but it's for the children" ‐spend your break quick-firing phonics at target pupils, teach playground games at lunchtime, run targeted interventions before the start of the school day, so many small encroachments on personal time because you can't argue with "it's for the children" in the education sector without being considered an absolute ogre.

I didn't say you said that teaching is the only stressful job.

My point is that teachers on mumsnet (look at the many threads) always go on about how stressful their job is.

And they seem to have little empathy, insight and awareness that other people also have stressful jobs.

So the correct response to this. As per the 'response to teachers handbook' that some on here use is >

If you don't like it leave.

please can you highlight where I said teaching is the only stressful job?

fwiw yes i have worked in a call centre. Hated it. But this thread is not about call centres. I was just replying to a poster who said that teachers should try having an audit instead of ofsted and that their clients are worse than the pupils.

I know that other jobs are stressful. I have worked in some of them, and went back to one of them.
What is your point?

For the most part, I enjoy primary teaching (although I teach in Scotland where it's less pressured than England). It's not a stress free job by any means and it's definitely got much harder since I started 10 years ago. It's well paid though (top of the scale teachers in non promoted posts get £50,589 a year now) and I still find joy in the job and feel it's possible (although harder) to make a difference to children's lives. There's no denying that there are significant problems in the education system at the moment though.

But do you think that other jobs aren't stressful?

I worked in a call centre - customers swore at me and threatened me all the time.

My cousin works in residential support centre for teenagers. She has been hit and had things thrown at her

I doubt that you will find any teacher that hated the actual teaching.
We signed up to teach children , with the marking tracking, etc. that goes with it.
Being around the kids is 90% great (there are always some).
I enjoyed the little club that I had with kids that wanted to be there and further improve their knowledge and the trips that came from it.
But that has become a very small part of the job and the other stresses IMO far out weight the good fun parts.

I'm sure it could be with; manageable class sizes, excellent head teachers, proper resources and a bit of break from constant testing.

It's funny how I went to the same school as a child that I ended up teaching in but when I was there in the 70s, the children managed to have full control of their emotions and actions The only difference is that they knew there were consequences. I've seen the same class behave perfectly well for their own teacher but the complete opposite for PPA cover.

I never understand why teachers think their job is the only stressful job!

All jobs are stressful! And many other jobs are much worse paid than teaching!

Have you worked in a call centre job?

You are quality checked on every single call you take. You are times on:

Length of call
Length of time that you are on hold
How many transfers you made to other departments (you are supposed to resolved the problem on the first call)
You are also timed on how many minutes you are away from your desk going to the toilet.

You do all this while being shouted at and abused by customers.

You are then called into the office every week to talk about why your metrics/call quality scored are not high enough.

Many people have a more stressful job and for less pay than teachers get

I used to teach primary and loved it. Thought it was the best job in the world. However it depends on the school you are in and whether the head has been a teacher or a business person. From what I understand now so many Academies are run as businesses. The head has to care for the children and the staff. When you get this you will see a happy school with happy children who are encouraged to have self confidence and fun as they learn. Also the staff turnover is low as there is nothing greater than to see children blossom under your care.

Because children aren't "clients" or "customers" with full control of their emotions and actions. If you work with children, there is an obvious expectation that they will not behave as adults do.

Of course teachers shouldn't be routinely assaulted. Of course systems of discipline and support should be put in place. (I appreciate that isn't always happening as much as it should as more children with additional needs are being educated in mainstream classrooms without additional support.)

But it's a false equivalence talking about "clients or customers" when you're talking about children 11 and under.

Why? At the end of the day you're still getting assaulted regardless of the age of the person - nobody should expect to be assaulted on a daily basis in their workplace.

I have been a primary teacher for 20 years and looking to leave soon.

There are many positives:
-being an important part of so many young lives
-sense of accomplishments to know you have made a difference
-having fun with the children
-the day passes really quickly
-you are NEVER bored
-the holidays
-good pension

I am trying to to leave because:
-it's becoming impossible to do a good job because of the increasing amount of ASN and decreasing amount of staff and support
-overcrowded curriculum where it's impossible to have the time to teach things properly
-an increasing focus on statistics rather than the child from management
-behaviour from some children and expectations of parents
-and I need a change

The teaching is pretty nice, unless you have particular behaviour issues to deal with. The rest of it is shit. Sadly the stats don't lie, most people that enter the profession leave soon after.

I mean, we are talking about primary schools here. I have had relatives who have been hit, scratched, assaulted by disruptive kids in their care, so I realise it's distressing and painful. But it's a false equivalence talking about "clients or customers" when you're talking about children 11 and under.

In other workplaces you’re expected to be polite to your customers, to explain things properly, to manage conversations, to be experts in your fields. But teaching at the moment (especially PGCEs) attracts only those who’ve failed other careers or courses or seem to have an idea that working with young children is somehow less stress than whatever they’re doing currently.

Sorry are you having a laugh? The type of person who gives up corporate law / banking for teaching usually can’t handle the pressure of their original work let alone pressure in their new job which has less pay. This is why there is so much clamour to attract people who are already successful in their high status stem / medicine jobs into PGCEs - but to do that the government needs to think creatively. In private schools, for example, these people can teach for a day or two a week / around holidays - this provides experience and gives their students the benefit of their connections.

I can't think of many other workplaces where a client/customer can swear at you, hit you and throw things at you yet there are no consequences and you're expected to continue working with them. No amount of holidays and pensions makes that worthwhile.

Many places I go into have signs up saying that any form of abuse towards staff is not tolerated. Doesn't seem to apply in schools.

Quite happy to tell you about giving up a career in law for primary school teaching, but was bullied so terribly in my final placement by my class teacher mentor and university tutor that I was signed off by my GP with stress. I never went back. I'm still haunted by what happened to me. It set me back career wise for many years and still impacts my mental health.

My way of illustrating the point is that when I did my PGCE I was 28. I'd previously been working in corporate law so demanding as it gets, and in no way wet behind the ears. I had volunteered in a school before PGCE, and had a mum and lots of friends who were teachers so I knew exactly what I was signing up for. Yet that six week placement in an "outstanding" school being bullied by that woman BROKE ME irrevocably.

Yes, and the second you say a word, teacher standards are waved at you. This appears to be universal; every school I have worked in since just before Covid has been similar.

But that's my point, the poster who said there is little accountability in teaching is having a laugh. Teachers are being made responsible for everything. My union is talking about local strike action, but it's just talk. I love the school, though, and have worked in far worse environments than this one, because while workload is insane, the atmosphere is generally nice.