To think Primary School Teacher could be a great job?

You said that many newly qualified teachers leave within five years.

I think that's pretty much the same in a lot of careers though.

People change careers a lot these days.

For example, I know a woman who used to work in business development, she is now training to be a nurse.

People have broken out of the old fashioned mind set of having to stay in one career for life.

People do lots of different jobs these days.

So that people only stay for five years in teaching, is kind of normal across the board

@Machiavellian You're right, but when those are the expectations in black and white as specified by school leaders, it's really hard to not do what everyone is expecting and doing.
Out of interest, who does the displays in your school? We're double mounting and 'wow-ing' left, right and centre, and sure, it looks great, but my time would definitely be better spent planning for teaching and learning.

This week alone:

• register, then in-class live email trail about students missing from class (if a student isn't in my class I have to report it within the first 10min of the lesson - fun when other stuff kicks off at the same time): I have to start the trail, then keep an eye out for responses and repeat this after half an hour if the student is still not there: around 15x this week, taking up a total of 30min, excluding the register itself (only 2min/pupil)
• email responses to parental questions re. homework and behaviour: 6x this week, taking up around 1.5h of my time in total (multiple emails back and forth between parent and me regarding one bit of homework because they had difficulty with the app)
• phone calls to parents re. behaviour (required), star of the week (required), attendance (required) - around 45min/ day (they are "only a quick call" but I've had multiple sets of parents on the phone for 10-15min at a time), all also recorded on our communications platform to prove I have made said phone calls (because the phone log isn't enough, apparently)
• we had a deep dive into my subject, which involved paperwork to show we had carried out student voice, book trawls, learning walks, staff voice, weekly subject updates, updating seating plans and annotations, updating SEND information because a few students had been moved classes this week - given that most of this was paperwork from other weeks, I'd say about an hour prep for this, gathering all the information, printing etc.
• student information requests - 2 this week, taking 30min each to fill in as each required evidence
• safeguarding - 2 incidents this week, taking 20min each to record with all the details the form requires and then follow-up with the DSL
• data tracker updates with recent marking and grades - 10min per test (3 tests this week) - marking said tests around 45min each
• updating the form board (required and monitored weekly) - finding information, printing, backing and actually attaching - around 45min
• reporting yet another leak in my classroom (that has, apparently, been fixed twice in the 6 weeks we have been back) - 10min
• daily pigeon hole checks and handing out paperwork to students - 3min/day (15min total)
• logging all of the week's practicals and risk assessments on our online system - 1.5h

We are on 14h 40min paperwork per week if my maths is correct, or 3h 6min/day on top of teaching, planning, meetings, duties and all the other bits, which take place between 8.30am and 4pm. Suddenly, taking all of these together, we are on over 10h 15min/day easily, and that is pure work, not any of the bits that make said work possible (walking between rooms, verbal updates with colleagues, booting up IT equipment, breaks/ lunches to go to the loo and shove food in, getting books/ pens/ textbooks etc.). So a school day ends up being around 12h/day.

Primary teacher of 15 years here. I am part time now (3 days), and it is MUCH better. I wouldn't ever go full time again. That said, I do a LOT of unpaid work (like marking on my days off). A LOT. That's the norm in teaching. What makes it a more bearable job is working in a great school. My school is amazing, and my colleagues are wonderful. Management is incredible. Anywhere with toxic leaders is a horrible environment, much like any work place.
Parents are getting way more difficult. The entitlement is off the scale. Many of them now don't want to do anything at home with their children (like read), as everything now seems to be the school's responsibility. Paperwork, safeguarding etc is time consuming.
However, would I do anything else? No. The actual teaching bit is still enjoyable for me, thankfully! It's bloody exhausting though. 😂

Have you seen the current 'golden hellos' running into tens of thousands of pounds offered by the government for candidates to embark on teacher training? That is not 'joining the profession'.
A large portion of fresh-out-of-training ECTs (Early Career Teachers) do not complete their two-year probation period, and many newly qualified teachers tap out within five years. They see contemporaries who went into other sectors out-earning them and (work flexibly!) in other graduate jobs (or trades for that matter) while their own earnings plateau and stagnate almost as soon as they're out of the starting blocks.

And 48,000 people joined the profession!

I'm saying that, to some extent, the pay and conditions balance the stress and disadvantages. That's how recruitment/retention works.

It's stressful and difficult and long hours, but the pay is decent, and the pension and holidays are exceptional. Only an individual can say whether the balance is right for them.

"It's stressful." Yes, I'm sure it is. The package reflects that it's more stressful than working in retail or care

It's not uncommon on MN for a poster to ask teachers to explain the realities of the job and why people find it so hard, why so many quit etc. Sometimes because they are considering it as a career. Sometimes just because they are curious.

Im laughing at

"People who know the answer respond "

And the "we want to tell the truth" posts that were written here earlier.

Like we don't know these things.

Do you think that people genuinely don't know that teachers :
work during the day at school,
have parent teacher meetings outside school,
are marked by ofsted for quality,
and have to do lesson prep and marking in the evenings.

We all know that! Everyone knows a teacher.

Itd be like me saying "i want to tell you the truth of what a nurse goes through....you'll have to work night shifts".

Everyone knows that nurses work night shifts.

Teachers are generally responding to OPs asking about the realities of the job.

People who know the answer respond.

If you don’t like reading it, don’t open the thread.

Oh no! You can't suggest anyone leaves. I did that once and had my arse handed to me on a plate! But who will teach the kids? I dunno, but not the people who've left teaching clearly.

Teachers are generally responding to OPs asking about the realities of the job.

People who know the answer respond.

If you don’t like reading it, don’t open the thread.

I think what pisses people off about many teachers on mumsnet - is they are always moaning and complaining,

When all of us know people in real life who have worse jobs, who don't complain at all.

Also the teachers on here who constantly moan and whinge, never seem to ever do anything about it. And people get fed up of listening to the same whinging.

If you don't like your job, leave! There are plenty of other jobs.

I know primary teachers who have moved into completely different jobs.

I think what pisses people off about many teachers on mumsnet - is they are always moaning and complaining,

When all of us know people in real life who have worse jobs, who don't complain at all.

Also the teachers on here who constantly moan and whinge, never seem to ever do anything about it. And people get fed up of listening to the same whinging.

If you don't like your job, leave! There are plenty of other jobs.

I know primary teachers who have moved into completely different jobs.

It's funny how I went to the same school as a child that I ended up teaching in but when I was there in the 70s, the children managed to have full control of their emotions and actions The only difference is that they knew there were consequences. I've seen the same class behave perfectly well for their own teacher but the complete opposite for PPA cover.

You make it sound easy to just walk into a teaching job. You do realise you’ve got to have a teaching qualification, right? That takes a year (unless you haven’t got a degree, in which case it’ll take longer), and for most people it will involve getting into some debt, unless they are already loaded, which would be very unusual. People who are independently wealthy don’t often become teachers. So having a ‘try’ at primary teaching is a pretty big commitment to make. I think teachers are right to tell the truth to someone who asks them if they’d recommended teaching, before that person commits a year of their life and accumulates a load of debt.

As for your surprise at a teacher saying they didn’t want to take a paycut…this is very common. I have a LOT of friends in teaching. At least half want to leave but feel trapped because they don’t necessarily have the right skills or experience for other roles, and those they could have a go at don’t pay enough. These are people who have mortgages and children to feed. Of course they don’t want to take a pay cut- they need to survive!

And 48,000 people joined the profession!

I'm saying that, to some extent, the pay and conditions balance the stress and disadvantages. That's how recruitment/retention works.

It's stressful and difficult and long hours, but the pay is decent, and the pension and holidays are exceptional. Only an individual can say whether the balance is right for them.

"It's stressful." Yes, I'm sure it is. The package reflects that it's more stressful than working in retail or care

How is it unrealistic? I was talking about jobs that may be stressful, not salary. Again - teachers aren't idiots. We do in fact know that retail assistants are not paid as well as teachers . We are also aware that we have longer holidays than other jobs. And yet over 40,000 people left teaching last year. It's not a competition. For the umpteenth time - we are not EVER saying that teaching is the only stressful job. Or that lots of jobs aren't underpaid. Why is it that you persist in thinking we are saying this?

You can change most to some if you like. It was an attempt to not generalise.