Schools should close early on a Friday

I was responding to the question posed about understanding what motivates people and makes them feel valued. Making a difference motivates most people, and gives them a sense of value. Add to that good pay, great pensions, great holidays. I just DON’T get the moaning.

Still not comparable. The senior lifeguard has 30 years experience so of course he earns more money. He is also in a rather niche job in the grand scheme of things. Not very many lifeguard openings around the country for all those teachers who feel hard done by financially to suddenly say ‘it’s ok, I’ll just go and be a lifeguard instead’.

I’m glad your grandson has lined up more seasonal work for Christmas and Easter. Seasonal. Not 52 weeks of the year.

One would hope that, teaching being a vocational position, the value comes from the knowledge that they are making a difference?

Thats a shit position to take and one that justifies poor pay and conditions for professionals perceived to be in vocations - teaching, nursing, social work - where staff are also predominantly female. You can want to make a difference and still expect reasonable salary and decent working conditions.

One would hope that, teaching being a vocational position, the value comes from the knowledge that they are making a difference? That’s what I’ve always understood to be what makes a good teacher a good teacher.

Good for your friend who works in PRU, I’m sure she looks for the positives in her work over and beyond what goes into her pay packet every month. Why did your neighbour hand her notice in?

Well he was trained by someone earning more money than him, senior lifeguard who runs courses for people who want to qualify. I understand he has been doing it for 30 years. I have no idea what he contributes to his pension but he's well paid and happy. More than you can say for all those teachers leaving their jobs.

It isn't seasonal where GS works, he already has work lined up for next Christmas and Easter when he will be on holiday from uni. He could earn a lot more if he wanted the hours.

I don't think you understand what motivates some people, what makes them feel valued. I'm retired but used to recruit staff who worked in high stress situations, if I'd offered less money I'd have got less recruits, I'd still have got some but others wouldn't have felt the money justified the challenges.

I'm sure some leave because of behaviour on the other hand my neighbour has just handed in her notice and she was teaching those amenable 5 to 10 year olds. I also know a teacher who works in a PRU where behaviour is a very serious issue, she loves it.

This is a ridiculous comparison, if he stayed being a lifeguard that’s all he would ever earn. He also doesn’t get a snazzy pension. A lifeguard is also likely to be seasonal work, even if he did want to make a career out of it, I doubt he’d get 50 hours a week all year round. Come on.

Because, as I said, perhaps it’s time for teachers to accept it and then it won’t scare so many potential teachers off before they even start. More positivity is needed. Those that are leaving are likely doing so because of bad behaviour, not their perceived low salaries. I doubt any money in the world would make them to put up with the disgraceful behaviour of so many children.

I don't see it as competitive, I'm not a teacher and never have been but I think it is a very demanding job. As a contrast GS is currently working his gap year as a pool lifeguard to save money for uni. He's work 50 hrs a week (Similar to teachers) and is making £650 a week, more than some teachers with less aggro and it took him a week to qualify not 4 years.

If it's so competitive why are we struggling with retention and recruitment?

Good point. Perhaps it’s time for teachers to accept that what they’re earning is actually very competitive in relation to similarly skilled jobs in the market place and be a bit more positive about things, then it won’t scare so many off.

I don’t know the ins and outs but it seems rather unfair that a teacher with a very cushty job teaching amenable 5-10 year olds in one school that doesn’t ask any more of them above and beyond their usual classroom hours (no after school clubs etc) earns the same as someone who is being spat at, threatened and dodging chairs in another school. Perhaps a premium should be applied to the salary of those teachers who are battling the toughest conditions and it be taken from those who do the bare minimum.

@CassandraWebb I don’t disagree that teachers should work outside school hours, I just question if it is healthy for anyone , not just teachers to be working nearly 60 hour weeks. And let’s be honest the pay is fine but not sure it reflects that kind of work load. I don’t think anyone is at their best, and certainly anyone with a family is going to find it difficult to juggle. I think we should be thinking about any profession that requires that and what we can do to get the best of of a work force.

One of the big problems in education is we don't have enough teachers. Pay has to be part of that. I know locally that children are being taught by unqualified teachers and teachers who are teaching subjects they aren't qualified to teach and by supply teachers who come and go (obviously that is the nature of supply) so getting increased pay is about improving things for the children if it means they get enough qualified teachers.

Of course not but teachers are paid a decent professional salary so I would expect them to work similar hours to any other professional (if not longer during term time, given they have the long holidays)

Like I said, I have offered to take a breakfast club to help others that need it, regardless of whether I need it. I don’t understand why you can’t grasp this??

Every other week in pastoral meeting our head of year would have all the form tutors in the year group identify students with attendance below 95% then write, address and stuff envelopes home to parents about it.

I couldn't help thinking of the books I could have marked in that time.

No I didn't count 13 without half term in Feb or May

I said 6 in summer and 1 in October or 5 in summer and 2 October, that makes 7
2 at Christmas and 2 at Easter so add 4 that makes 11
then you can Feb and May half term which is another 2 making 13.

I didn't mention the Feb and May half terms as it was the other holidays I was disagreeing with.

Which bank holidays are you including? I can only see one that is not included in the holiday above, the early May bank holiday.

Ok, thank you. I don't think that's right, at all.

@Thorpepark So don't understand why your kids need to go to breakfast club if you can be flexible with your hours?

@Riversideandrelax Oh OK. No they don't. Teachers don't get paid overtime/given toil for any extra hours outside of the school day. Many hours unpaid.

It wasn't a rhetorical question, it was a genuine one. I don't know why you think the answer is so obvious.

My niece is in year 6 at a prep school. She does 5.5 hours of academic lessons a day and has approx 45mins to an hour of timetabled sport. The school day starts at 8 and finishes at 4.45. Then they have optional sports/enrichment clubs/prep after school until 6. 5 days a week (apart from weds afternoons which is matches) She copes fine. I imagine the younger years do slightly fewer academic lessons during the day (possibly not?) but they all finish at 4.45 at the earliest.

My ex went to boarding school and they had longer days. All the class work was done before lunch though. Afternoons were sports based.

At private school, isn’t it a lot more sport/ music etc in the longer days which I think would be a wonderful solution for date school if led by qualified coaches and funded properly

Yet children at private schools seem to manage it very well (they also have much longer holidays mitigate it…. oh wait)