Schools should close early on a Friday

@HouseofHills Do you get paid overtime for extra hours worked?

I think what we are saying is that in a normal working day of 9-6 (very few jobs are 9-5 nowadays!) - or 8.30-5.30 to allow for the start time - there is teaching time for 6-7 hours of it, plus maybe one day a week to run an after-school club, but that still leaves a couple of hours at least four times a week to do the admin parts of the job such as planning and marking.
That 8 hours is already a full working day per week, so it seems peculiar to imply that teachers already have to do these things entirely in their 'own time'.

Of course, the admin burden on teachers has famously steadily increased so it is easy to see that there might be more to do than would fit into 8 hours, hence the overflow and need to take things home at the weekend - but that doesn't seem to be because you only get half a teaching day blocked off for the tasks too, that is an additional chunk on top of the afterschool time which is already part of the job?

This is going to be a very unpopular opinion but… I think a lot of primary school teachers have an unrealistic expectation about how the world of work actually works. You knew someone who had to work over the weekend because of something coming up on a Friday? That’s a normal part of working life!

I’m a Civil Servant and many times something has happened on Friday which has meant working until late at night and over the weekend.

DH is a surgeon and he goes into work every Saturday without fail to personally check on the patients he operated on on the Friday, but he’s only contracted to work one weekend in eight. When he gets home at 7 or 8pm he looks over his operating list for the next day and does his admin.

I’m not saying it’s right that people have to work much longer than their contracted hours but it is part of modern life if you want to have a career rather than a job.

My friend is primary school teacher and complains of finishing late when she gets home at 6pm! That’s early or at least normal time for most people. Having to do occasional work at the weekend isn’t unusual. I think if she changed careers she’d get a huge shock.

It's meant to be to allow children to pursue sports and hobbies on Friday afternoons.

Oir high schools run various clubs and activities on a Friday afternoon for kids who want them, most kids go home but the option is there for extra curricular activities on the school grounds.

My MILs school got in a whole host of people to let teachers have meetings and PPA on a Friday evening. They had in WI- who taught knitting, crochet, gardening, local sports coaches from football, rugby, tennis, rounders, people to teach DIY skills, scouts/cubs leaders etc- what was on offer changed every half-term. The kids loved it- made them more rounded and ensured everyone got their PPA

It would be fine by me as a parent as long as there was after school club provision as DH and I both work. Either an after school club, sports club or some form of golden time as you say.

This comment left my mouth pretty much on the floor. If that's what you think, no wonder you get hard done by. But I honestly don't think you are.

Yes, in most professional jobs people take work home with them or stay actually late (5pm isnt late, lol). Not all jobs, and not every night in all jobs, but the only jobs I've had where you clock out on time without a care have been entry level admin positions.

Personally, I worked until gone midnight last night. Started again at half 7 this morning (though yes, am quickly checking MN). This is fairly normal for me, and I'm part time...

The actual solution is to have a few extra teachers employed so that all get free periods during working day

But that costs

For a while people muddled through

But now the lack of staff is getting unbearable teachers are leaving it makes things worse

The only options are more taxes form somewhere to pay more teachers or fewer education hours

This is just ridiculous! What about the actual education or lack of for the children. Four days a week with already almost half the year on holiday is beyond a joke!
Scotland is falling so far below global standards as it is. Surely they should be increasing school hours not reducing them. The children are being very badly let down.

No I don't agree.
My child's school did this for a few years (before the government made it mandatory for kids to be in school longer)
It failed hugely and they had to have a after school club running between 12-3.30 because parents couldn't pick their kids up due to working.

Maybe if they shortened the school hols to compensate the Friday afternoon that would work otherwise no.

I have children at primary school that has a park opposite where parents take their children after pick up. I go to the park most days and can guarantee that after the last child has left, certainly by 3.30, all the teachers follow through the school gates, jump in their cars and leave. Perhaps they are taking their work home with them, or the school has an efficient system, but the mass exodus is quite obvious.

I think it would unfairly impact lone parents the majority of whom are women so no, I don't agree

For the most part the general lesson would be similar, when I last worked as a teacher (2010) detailed lesson plans were required with reference to differentiation required for individual pupils. I think it’s much harder for newly qualified teachers too trying to find their feet.

I hated the bureaucracy required. I enjoyed being in the classroom and teaching my subject but the endless paper shit was awful. So much happier now

My children's school did this for exactly this reason. Early finish on Fridays, a few minutes shaved off lunch break every day. Worked really well BUT it was a secondary school so the children could make their own way home. I don't see how it could work in a primary.

Have a look at my previous post.

Schools have different lesson times.

Cohorts are different.

You can just pick up a lesson plan teach from it, you need to actually know your subject.

Subjects change.

Sometimes IT can help, if your students have access to it eg moodle can be set up with quizzes and drop boxes that can be automatically marked but they don't test subject knowledge or understanding.

It's sweet that you actually think teachers get 13 weeks holidays. Your children are obviously not in exam years where teachers run extra sessions at half term.

I find it incredibly rude to suggest teachers only work the hours the children are there.

No one has suggested this.

Random question on planning. Schools obviously follow the national curriculum. So why do lessons need planning every time in advance? If you have lesson plans for one year, surely the same plan could be used for the kids the next year ( for example the English curriculum for year 8 would be the same every year so why replan lessons instead of using the ones for the same stage the previous years)

Lots of other jobs with less holidays etc have people working outside their contracted hours. I officially do 9-5.30. Regularly start earlier, and log on again at 7.30/8 just to try keep on top of work.

Very blinkered view to think that only teachers do this

I think this is down to the Curriculum for Excellence, which came in at a similar time to the (English) National Curriculum. Previously Scottish schools had better outcomes than England. Edinburgh schools have had an early finish on Fridays for decades.

Not all schools in Scotland do this for reference.

But do most people in other jobs take their work home with them - after their 5pm finish - to continue working at home / on the weekend ?

I’m a social worker, when I was in practice 50/60 hour weeks were pretty usual, so yes other people in other jobs work very long hours too.

My friends child goes to a primary school that closes at lunch time on a Friday. I think it's a good idea for teachers, so they get their planning time, it's just a problem for the the parents. I would have to arrange child care as myself and Dh work full time. My dc would be happy though!

Do you not just recycle the previous years lesson plan?

To an extent. But in secondary, I can't give the top set I have this year the same work as the bottom set I had last year. Timetabling can play a big part in what can be achieved - what works first thing on a Monday will induce chaos last lesson Friday, for example.

And good teaching requires a critical eye over your approach - I did it this way and then played catch up for 2 lessons cos they didn't understand it so maybe a different approach this time, for example.

And then there's the changes to example specs to contend with - MFLnis changing this year, for example and we've had good rework our schemes of work for that. .

I'm a nursery nurse and we have to do weekly, termly and yearly planning and do daily observations and write reports for parents. Do you think we get time out to do this? Or do you think every weekend/evening is spent trying to keep on top of everything. I don't finish work until 6 (unless there is a staff meeting in which case it's 8)
So I'd love a Friday afternoon off but it ain't going to happen. Do you not think it's a bit unfair on the kids who don't get to go early? And very unfair on the TA who I'm sure would also like Friday afternoon off?

Sorry I’m going to get flamed but no…I (and most other working people) have to finish at 5.30 on a Friday, I would love to finish at lunchtime or have a 4 day week. And now I have to juggle more childcare on top of that? Why?