Schools should close early on a Friday

I don’t know how clearer I can make it . I am not saying teachers are unique , that I can only give my personal experience and I believe that everyone should be entitled to fair pay and conditions. It’s you that keeps singling out teachers.

Like I said, I’ve had significant training but I have no more hours to give so can’t do leadership at the moment. I’m barely managing teaching. I don’t think 50+ hours should be the norm for anyone. Not just teachers.

I get your point, but my point is that yet again, teachers are suggesting that the predicament they find themselves in is unique - it is not - its the same across the work force - 'significant' pay increases require training and moving up the levels to higher pay scales. And, once again, teachers are paid well, especially when taking into account their pensions (which is something that is always brushed under the carpet in these discussions).

Do you not think the best teachers should be teaching? and upskilling themselves all the time to evolve, teaching has certainly moved in hugely from when I first trained, and my skills have certainly evolved.

To be honest, I’ve been in leadership. It’s actually far from a significant pay rise and it was 70 hour weeks, so unfortunately not compatible with having a family. Also very few part time roles available. I just want to pay my bills, have a some sort of work life balance. I admit I chose the wrong career ( although I am very good at my job) I also want it for my children’s teachers and all over people who do other roles. Am I really so unreasonable for wanting that? I am quite passionate about ensuring people can remain in the work place when they have a family, why are you trying to make it impossible for them?

Can I ask why you think you should get a ‘significant pay increase’ if you don’t go into a leadership role? Who gets a significant pay increase in any industry unless they train, upskill and move up the ladder?

Only because you compared a trainee accountant with an experienced teacher. I find most teacher tend not to compare , it’s other people who constantly try to. If you want teachers who are not completely burnt out by the system and are able to complete the job properly something needs to change. The same may well be true for other professions. I don’t comment as I am less informed in that area. People say teachers are not saying anything about the failings in the system but when they do they are told they are moaning. It’s bizarre really when all we want is the best education for kids, which is definitely best delivered by not exhausted teachers.

I agree teachers need the time and tools to do their jobs, and that taking work home regularly isn't acceptable.

It's certainly a management issue, I know a few teachers at different schools who don't have these struggles and only occasionally take small amounts of work or marking home.

However, finishing early on Fridays (or any day) is only realistic for a small percentage of families. The reality is, when there are 2 working parents (or a working single parent) it's simply not an option and could end with parents loosing jobs and children suffering for it.

It's not the fault of teachers that working hours and school hours are so out of sync or that it's not possible for one parent to stay at home. Equally it's not the fault of children or parents that some school are so badly managed.
But that's the state of the world, it's not a race to the bottom and collectively can we support each other instead of actively trying to put groups against each other.

You made the comparison when you said 'So not comparable then...'.

Do you think teachers finish when the kids do ? Eg 3.15 pm ??

@ClaudiaWankleman why are you making comparisons because I’m not. I don’t think any of us should be neglecting our children and our own mental health, I don’t think working 45 hours part time or 50-60 hours full time is something anyone should be doing, and unfortunately my children absolutely are suffering for it. They get a raw deal in the amount of time they have with me, I miss events at school and nursery, I struggle to do homework and activities with them as I can’t spare the time. I’m sure lots of people are the same but I’m saying it’s not good for any of us. Not that I have it worse.

Quite comparable. You earn the equivalent of a £41k FTE - that's basically the same as you can expect for an accountant salary outside of London who doesn't move out of doing accounting (into financial oversight etc). I don't disagree that it's a really tough job and the pay seems a bit shit, but the teacher exceptionalism is silly. You aren't neglecting your family any more than any of the rest of us are.

Yes they do

Except I don't think I am "hard done by". I've never said I was. I was commenting on how other people might feel. You've actually just reinforced what I was saying earlier.
I actually enjoy my job. I appreciate it is very stressful at times but I fully appreciate my salary and my holidays.
I'm not bitter about anyone who has it easier or earns more than me and I certainly wouldn't wish anyone to have it harder or earn less. I chose my career because education is important to me and I love working with children. The positives far outweigh the negatives (for me).

The thing is, you might not have it easy, but nobody does. You're nit more hard done by than the rest of us.

Fuuuck I can't even read all of this. Why do teachers think they're such a special case? Stop being a martyr. We all work hard.

Obviously I don't know what you do for a living but maybe those posting are just a bit sick of being constantly subject to public scrutiny or having people regularly commenting on how easy they have it (or posting on mumsnet about what time they leave the car park) and need to vent. Just a thought.

Exactly this.

I've lost count of the times teacher friends have posted on Facebook about working in the evening like it is something so unique and special to their job.

Meanwhile I often work long hours and so do all my colleagues. I just don't see the need to post about it. I knew what I was signing up for when I took the role.

I don't think anyone is saying that. Just that working over one's hours definitely isn't unusual in salaried jobs.

I really don't get the "my job is hard so yours should be too" attitude. It doesn't help anyone.
Anyway, after reading another post on here I think I might quit teaching and go into the cat-sitting business! Easy money for a stress free life! 😜

Yup me too. I'm in consultancy - we have a big project due on Thursday. I've already done about 4 hours today even though I don't work Fridays (lol).

I tried to just watch some Netflix, but it's too much on my mind, so I'm back on the laptop. There'll be plenty of hours put in over the weekend.

Just wanted to prove a point. Pharma worker here. I’ve just put kids to bed. I’m back at my desk for an urgent project we just found out about. It’s Friday, it’s late… 9pm but that’s what happens when you work with global colleagues. This isn’t unusual and no… I’m not getting paid for it.

I'm afraid that's far too simplistic and naive. I don't work in England so not subject to Ofsted scrutiny but that doesn't lessen the workload.
Many children are definitely not getting what they need now but that doesn't mean we give up trying our best for them.

My area of Scotland doesn’t finish early on a Friday although are looking at doing it for secondary school pupils letting them finish at 1.30 or something like that. Not doing it for primary as we are rural and sadly lacking childminders/wrap around/nurseries etc. my own childminder collects kids already from a different primary school so cannot get mine from theirs should they finish early on a Friday and both sets of parents work. I work in nursing and DH works away so we’d be pretty screwed if they did it to the primary

Are children getting what they need now?

It would take less than a term for all hell to break loose, and then changes that have been needed for years can finally be made.

Be that teachers actually being paid for the hours they do, thus making it a more attractive career and leading to more teachers. Offstead will have to cut out the shit making teachers lives easier, more TA and pastoral support, better SEN provision and a curriculum that actually benifits the kids.

As long as teachers quietly keep picking up the pieces and bridging the gaps the government and LA's will continue to wring them dry.

Same as all these unpaid/low paid internships where young people work like dogs for a chance of a job. If the work needs doing then people should be paid a fair wage for the time needed to do it.

I'm usually one of the first to defend teachers on here, because I know it isn't an easy job at all and I have a huge amount of respect for the many teachers I know, but honestly, you really don't do your profession any favours with posts like this.

Comments like this make you seem totally ignorant of what goes on in the wider world of work, and people therefore become less inclined to believe what you say when you raise what are probably genuine concerns around workload.

I'm not saying it's right or something to aspire to, but it's very, very common in salaried roles for people to work late/take work home/do stuff over the weekends etc. I have done this in every role I've had since graduating over 30 years ago, and I have never been paid a penny in overtime - it has just been expected that you work the hours necessary to get the job done. And that can often be a lot of hours for not very much pay.

I absolutely support the case for better terms and working conditions for teachers, but this kind of exceptionalism simply switches people off.

So not comparable to a teacher who actually pays to train and unless they go into leadership will not be getting significant pay increase. 20 years in, I’m on a 0.8 contract, work 45 hours a week and earn £33,000. I know many of us are in the same position, but it’s so hard, working long hours, the guilt of neglecting your own family and still struggling to pay the mortgage. I know it’s not just teachers and feel empathy for all others in the same situation, I want better for all of us.