To think men don’t do house chores ‘well’ because

I think there are several layers to the problem. Boys and girls (of past generations....) definitely were raised differently: girls were encouraged to play with dolls/prams/pretending to cook, and boys used to play with cars/building blocks/tools. Girls would spend time with mum/nan in the kitchen, observing a lot unconsciously. Boys much less so - so many things about cooking or washing up only came into their focus somewhere around Uni years, after moving out of family home. From that point forward, some persevere and learn, and some are intimidated and and never do.
My DH definitely did not have any exposure to household tasks, so things that to me are basic common sense (using the warm water, rinsing the sponge, folding the dusting cloth) for him were absolute revelations.

Kudos for honesty!
You know, I'm sorted out for life (probably won't live long enough to spend it all) thanks to my darling husband and nobody else.
However, starting with my father, I'm also immensely relieved that I won't need one of you
at home or at close proximity to myself, when the time comes. (No kids).

Because....
Most of them are entitled twats.
Full stop.

No, they don't do it well, so they are not asked again.

Of-course men are fully capable but some posters are drifting into blaming women for male incompetence. Some women - myself included - have put up with men not pulling their weight not because we are weak or believe men can't do it but because we love our children. If a man pulls his weight then starts being shit when children arrive (true for many) what do you do? There are no easy options in this situation and a clean well ordered house (where adults don't fight constantly) for the children is top priority - as it should be.

They just can't be fucking arsed/it is not important to them. I don't necessarily agree with it being learned behaviour.

I grew up in a house where NOONE cleaned. It was filthy. Bins would be spewing over for weeks waiting to be emptied. My mum could barely get up to get us ready and out the house to school when we were at primary school and by the time we went to high school she never bothered getting up to see us off at all. My dad worked long hours/away from home regularly and bought into my mum's bullshit.

And yet I somehow managed as an adult to work out how to clean my house, wash and iron my own clothes, keep my house tidy, get places on time and look after my own kids. Because it was important to me to learn. People (men and women) don't clean their homes because they don't think its important. I disagree but I don't live in their houses so that's up to them. The problem is when a tidy person and a can't be arsed with it person live together.

Ahem, bullshit. According to your list I’m a bloke then - great job, high earner ( but so is DW) I’m mechanically minded and very into tech and gadgets… I could give a stuff about decor…

God good. No one is capable of discussing anything without talking about their own specific circumstances, it seems.

This is precisely why I specified that I was talking about tendencies that apply generally at a population level.

Of course there will be plenty of people of both sexes who sit outside of that list - I'm not suggesting that no man has ever bought a scatter cushion or that female mechanics don't exist - but if you were to carry out a statistical study across the population as a whole, you would, I'm sure, find that men generally care less than women about the things I've listed.

We've seen this chapter and verse on here loads

Men

Don't

Care

About household chores, because they see it as the woman's job

My DH has an all or nothing approach to cleaning/tidying (mostly nothing!!)

So he's very good at a "deep clean" but this isn't sonething that's usually mutually discussed , I'll just come in and all the furniture is pulled out and everything is everywhere, and he's doing a really thorough clean.

But he does almost no what I consider " maintenance/day to day" cleaning, or do in a rushed or haphazard way. He'll use a tea towel as a multi purpose cloth and wipe surfaces, and even the floor with it and then hang back up

He does almost no admin - personal, family, children, household etc

I strongly suspect he is ND which might explain some of it

This might be coincidence, but he puts a lot of effort into things that other people or guests will notice/compliment on. Eg DIY, decorating, cooking, gardening etc.
"Oh this is a delicious meal, the garden looks lovely etc"
No one ever says "glad I had clean bedding, or the bathroom was clean!" (And no one cares what the kitchen looked like before or after the meal was cooked!)

DH and I have chores we prefer (and actually like doing) but we don't have pink or blue jobs, but stripe ones!! He pulls his weight and me mine but I wouldn't accommodate someone who did less than their share (dumped someone for just that issue and he made excuses for not doing stuff that would made Jackanory seem like a factual programme). It wasn't the example I saw growing up or that my DH had and no, it is not luck, but sharing lives and helping each other.

Just a suggestion, but maybe the behaviour stops now. If someone can't do something (and I have female friends who don't pull their weight, so not just a male thing!) then should we not all be instigating training programmes to make sure they have the skills /necessary life skills going forward?

This is a generalisation based on population-level frequency before anyone jumps in with 'oh but MY man does xyz' or 'well I'm a man I can assure you that....'

People - men and women - perform best in areas they care about. Internal motivation. This is much more effective than doing something because you know someone else is expecting/want it.

Things men, generally speaking, don't care about as much as women and therefore don't do as well at:

• home decor, cleaning etc. Just look at the homes a lot of single men live in. As long as they've got the sofa and telly set up, they're good. Few dirty mugs around? Who cares. Skid marks in the toilet? The toilet's designed for shit isn't it?

• other people, including their own children. Little Jacob hasn't got a good costume for world book day? Ah well, he'll live. Mum not getting a birthday card on time? She'll get over it, I'll ring her later.

Things men do care about so often perform much better in, even when seeming inept in other areas of life

• their work, earning money, the status of both
• having a nice, functional and ideally impressive car
• cables and tech set up

I had to teach my bachelor partner how to do housework even though he had his own house when I met him. He was a nightmare believe me. Only did vacuuming and clothes washing. Oh and vacuuming on floors around furniture, never under bed or behind furniture. Oh he did clean his TV and computer. He is a lot better now but I know he would regress if he wasn't with me, just a life of watching a clean TV and just enough clean clothes in the wardrobe.

I kind of worked that out over the years.

Genuine question, - even though you don't care, do you do it anyway, because there would be a disproportionate amount of work for your partner to do if you didn't? Or do you also not care that your partner is doing more? Not a criticism just genuinely want to know if you care.

My dad does the bulk of cooking and food shopping, bins and laundry. My mum does the rest of the cleaning.

In my house I do the cooking and food shopping, and baby clothes shopping. DH does most of the cleaning, dishes and bins.

Our background is Asian Muslim.

There is 'can't do anything at all' and 'can't do it the way I say to my standards'

I think in many cases, where the man does things but needs reminding/ not done properly it's a lack of attention to detail and a "close enough" attitude. My own DH has a it's 90% of what I want and the effort needed to make it 100% far outweighs the outcome. E.g tidying a room, if my DH tidies, it all gets piled into a corner or into a cupboard. It's technically tidy as in the toys are not all over the floor and instead shoved in the cupboard. But I would have sorted the toys so all the bits are together, then put them on the shelves in the cupboard so they are easy to get out again. DHS method takes 15 mins and mine might take 25. He doesn't see the worth of sorting the toys as they are all just going to get pulled out again anyway.

He's very good at the "quick" single task jobs like filling the dishwasher, make the bed, mow the lawn, change the beds, squeegy the shower glass, mop the floor etc. He's absolutely crap at the multi step jobs and just goes with close enough. So stuff like sort the washing and wash it (everything bundled in together regardless of colour), clean the bath where you have to take the kids toys out the bath first.

I put him in charge of entertaining the kids (much harder job imo) whilst I do the multi step stuff. He does the single step jobs.

Men don't do chores 'well' because they know if they do them badly, that the woman will tell him to stop and she will do it herself. THIS IS HOW THEY GET YOU!

I must admit, my husband doesn't do very much. Definitely not on his own initiative. He will do something without complaining if I ask him - but he doesn't do much without being asked. Also, he takes a phenomenally long amount of time to do anything. Like often 3-4 times longer than I do.

When he polished and dusted the dining room unit, the TV cabinet, and the fire surround (and hearth) the other week - he took about two hours to do it. He also cleaned the kitchen the other week. Washed the dish drainer down, and cleaned the bowl, did the washing up and drying up, and wiped the work tops down. It took him two hours too.

Both of these would take me half an hour tops. He was ridiculous when he was in the kitchen. He wouldn't let me in while he was in there, because he didn't want me 'distracting him.' And yet he happily follows me around like a shadow when I'm trying to do chores. (When he is at home.)

Quite honestly, we've been together nearly 40 years now, and for my sins. I have always taken on most of the domestic chores and housework - because it was expected of me to be honest. That sounds ridiculous. I know. But after all these years, there's no way I'm going to train him to do it like I do - or as often as I do. In my next life I'm coming back as a man.

My issue is always:
'They don't see it' but then they 'see' stuff at work, in the car, in the garden?
'They have different standards' okay, but isn't a partnership about meeting each other halfway?
'They were never taught' it has literally never been easier to learn something

But the thing that bothers me the most is that how men are happy to sit doing nothing or doing things for themselves rather than stuff for the household. That's a deep seated selfishness and to me holds up a suspicion that deepens as I get older: there's a lot of men out there who want a 'wife' and 'kids' and aren't actually interested in 'being in a loving relationship with Sarah Jones' and 'parenting Amy and Josh' if that makes sense....

We don't have strict 50/50 on all tasks as some I am far better at than him and some he is far better at. So it generally evens out. The main problem is the timescale or standards. So for example he is perfectly capable of washing up and does it throughly including cleaning sink, taps and draining board after but he would quite happily leave the dirty dishes stacked on the side for a few days then do it as opposed to doing it every day.
On the other hand if we start talking about a holiday or a day out or even renewing insurance whereas I would be content to do that in a few days time he likes to get on with organising, research and generally within an hour or 2 has a list of best places to stay, eat and a full itinerary of the entire trip

My husband never made a mess, and cooking tidied up as he went. I'm not nearly as good (looking at the dishes still in the sink from last night).
I have friends who have husbands that do half of the housework, those that don't do any, those that do a bit not very well. Mostly if both work full time the male half seems more involved.
I think if they are interested they do just as good a job. Many aren't.

Some people are intentionally incompetent because it means they get out of doing it.

Some people just have never been shown and haven't bothered learning because it means they get put of doing it.

Some people won't let their partners do it because it makes them feel superior / important / irreplaceable / justified in not doing certain other jobs.

Presumably these women are worried sick if they ever die or spend a considerable time in hospital their partner will basically neglect them until social services step in?

Yes! Definitely this!