UPF, poverty, obesity.... children’s healthy eating - an impossible challenge?

I’m not sure about kids height falling. Kids are bloody HUGE. The height of them blows me away.

A report on micro plastics being found in every man’s sperm tested in a study is what shocked me recently. We literally have plastic in our DNA now.

I agree with you about the income related problems but the problem is beyond just that now, it is also about how to cook vegetables. I did t watch all of it but I remember some programme Hugh Fearnly(?) made where he pulled up in a vegetable van in a more deprived area and didn’t have many takers for his vegetables.

It's a sad situation that doesn't look as if it will be resolved soon.

So much has changed since I grew up in the 50s and 60s. At school we had weekly cookery classes that taught the basics of nutrition, and we cooked a meal to take home.

We had plenty of sports provision - gym, hockey and tennis, and children regularly played out with their friends.

This isn't possible any more, due to the increased level of traffic, and far more children on screens (another separate issue that will surely have serious repercussions).

I do think there is a bit more awareness filtering through now, after the publication of 'Ultra Processed People.' That book was a real eye opener, and it clearly showed how chemical additives in food are affecting the body.

Is this just a statistic in uk?

We are Central Europe now, Ds goes to a mixed age kindergarten which is 2.5-6.5 years approximately. 70 ish children. I don’t think I have seen a single overweight child there the last two years. The school is next door, 6-10 years olds, I don’t think any there stand out as overweight either?

The shops still sell junk food also. Although at kindergarten they are only allowed things like bread with toppings, fruit, veg, similar.

Tinned food tends to be the better end of long life as it's the heating and canning process that preserves it rather than using additives. Most of it passes the "could I buy that ingredient", and the :100 years ago" test.

There is a distinction between food being processed to make it edible or conserve it, and the ultra-highly processed foods made with products that can only be made through industrial processes and therefore digest differently because of the way they're already broken down.

If the majority of your diet is made up of foods that are whole or a fairly lightly processed form (e.g. baked beans- it still digests like a bean) then there's not much to sweat over.

Food technology lessons are good to impart some knowledge and practice but we all know that people often do what they know and experience growing up.
Those who want to do things differently will do regardless and seek ways to do so.
I'm sure most people are aware that processed food is crap but just don't care.
I've raised my dc on home cooked food but they'd still probably choose Pringles, frozen chips, instant noodles and processed meat like salami if they were given a choice. Maybe not daily but definitely every now and then.
Good job they don't often get a choice.

Look, I fully understand allergy. I have a dc with severe allergy. But a lot of people decide that certain food groups are bad for them and it's based largely on a load of old misinformation. For example the idea that fat in your diet is bad. They end up filling the gap with UPFs because essentially humans need to eat a balance of certain food groups and a certain number of calories per day to be healthy. I see this all time within a certain demographic in my social circle and they push these ideas on to their children too.

This is so hard to remedy, I have an interest in it and still don't really know where to start. The only things that I have in my cupboard that are not upf are extra virgin olive oil, porridge, fruit and veg and frozen fruit veg and fresh and frozen cuts of whole meat or fish
Every other cooking oil is upf, every breakfast cereal, or biscuit, cake, yogurt except real greek, every soup, loaf of bread, ice-cream, drink other than milk or water.
I'n Asda every single loaf of bread is upf even the fresh baked.
None of that could have been purchased 100 years ago and we have not evolved to eat it - or the additives, flavourings, emulsifiers, stabilisers in it.

My dcs primary school serve quite healthy food. Things like a chicken and rice dish, a veggie option like butternut and vegetable pastry, there's always jacket potato. My dc don't like it though because they're too healthy and don't put salt in anything. I think a bit of salt would make it more enjoyable for most.

The problem with many families is they just don't cook from when their dc are young and then it's hard to make the changes as the kids are used to high sugar processed food.
Some parents just can't manage it.
I remember working with a young teenage girl who was fed up of frozen foods and said "I wish my mum would cook something like a spaghetti bolognese" she'd had it at her friends house and really wanted a family meal where they all ate a proper meal together.
There's a lot unsaid in that kind of setup and it's so valuable for children.

People don’t WANT to have food intolerances. They are a pain in the neck.

If you had said the rise in intolerances was likely driven by our fucked up diet I would agree with you. There an argument that the Chorleywood Process of bread manufacture is behind the rise in gluten intolerance, for instance. That is far more plausible than people doing it for fun.

We need to un-do so many decades of food misinformation. Most of it driven by large scale manufacturers. I don't think it's just kids who are from low income and low education suffering under nutrition, although that is a serious concern. An awful lot of middle class people I know are eager to have all manner of intolerances. They think gluten/dairy/anything with fat in is bad for you and these are people who are actually interested in health and diet. They buy weird vegan spreads because they think a bit of butter is bad for you. Many of their kids are denied key food groups with the misguided idea that they are bad for them. I would guarantee that a few are actually malnourished. All starting from birth. Look at the figures for CMPA then read around it and the rise in diagnosis (don't want to detail the thread with this). The drive of all of this results in people eating less whole foods and more UPF. I don't think it's all coincidence!

When you're really on your uppers you need meals that you know your DC will eat, and which can be prepared without using a lot of fuel. You might live in a food desert (ie no handy large supermarket that you can reach, only a local convenience store whose stock will be predominantly long-life ie UPF foodstuffs)

You won't have the time/energy/money to cook a range of different meals, some of which might be rejected by the DC - yes, you can by repeated exposure get people accustomed to a greater range, but if you have no alternative fuel for them during that time then they go hungry and no parent wants to see that.

We have a food industry that is completely geared up to supporting cheap, long-shelf life foodstuffs as those are the most profitable for them

So yes, a lot of people are very, very stuck.

And it's the nation's health that pays the price.

I'd like to see a return to Home Economics to the curriculum, replacing food technology. Even if that doesn't solve all the factors in an obesogenic society - particularly the impact of relative poverty - it would cover useful things about diet and running a household which people could draw on as and when their circumstances allow (assuming anyone remembers what they learned as school - but even a faint recollection might nudge someone in a useful direction later)

@crackofdoom A while back someone published excerpts on Facebook of his diary as a young man walking the Ridgeway Path in the 1970s with his two mates- it was really entertaining, but what stood out for me was the low availability of food. They were on a low budget, and seemed to exist on mostly rice. On the rare occasions when they encountered a shop that was open they couldn't afford much- maybe some oranges, or on one occasion they found a chip shop and enjoyed the luxury of chip butties! In the photos they look incredibly skinny.

Nowadays, every village Spar would sell you 100g Dairy Milk for a quid, or a 2 for 1 offer on Pringles, or a packet of value biscuits for 50p.

I remember as a treat on a Saturday night, we’d have a Mars bar, but not to ourselves, it would be one cut up so that that we all had a small piece.

Yes, it is unbelievable that the Government would be so short sighted, as to close such a valuable resource. How on earth could they not see that it is vital to invest in very young children, and that support must continue as they grow.

Ah, the days of Sure Start. Don't forget that's all been scrapped. Our local centre used to run cooking classes for children and parents in the school holidays - it was amazing!

Also parent of a year 1 child in a London state primary in a middle class area here and similar story. They do seem
to offer an unlimited “salad bar”
alonhside the upf burgers and pizza but I’d be surprised if any of the kids ate it.

Weve just started sending DS in with a packed lunch as they’ve now introduced dessert every day.

One of my dc is extremely overweight. Eats very healthily and not too much, we think it’s due to steroids for allergies and severe asthma but we get so many comments when out. In some ways it’s lucky she’s also autistic as she doesn’t understand but some people can be cruel

My DD would eat a cheese or egg sandwich, but they're not freshly made and they only have the very cheap pre-packaged sandwiches.

It's tonnes of junk!

I agree about the point of sweets being given out in school for birthdays. That should be stopped. The last thing that young children need is more sweets. Birthdays are always happening, celebrate them outside of school.

Agree with this. The whole ‘Healthy Schools’ initiative just doesn’t seem to be a thing any more. Our PTA runs endless cake sales, and when our year group recently won the competition to raise the most money from this, the kids’ reward from the PTA was a big bag of candy floss each to eat in school!

There was the whole thing about Jamie Oliver and school dinners - but are they any better now? This is what DC in poverty eat often as their main meal.

I thought Primary school food was not great (lots of not great quality and processed food.) But once they get to High school it's even worse. Just loads of cakes of every kind, same with soft drinks, sausage rolls, chips, hot dogs! I'm considering trying to do something about the food at my Dd's school but not sure what I could do? At the end of the day the catering company is a business and cakes sell!

I knew things had changed drastically when I started to see people arriving at the Remembrance Day Parade in my city (major military presence) with sausage rolls, burgers and takeaway coffees. Honestly, can people not cope for 45 minutes without refreshments?

However, the worst I have seen was three ladies eating sausage rolls during evensong in a cathedral

When I was a child shopping in the city centre was a treat in itself . . . getting new shoes or a coat was a major event. We never bought snacks whilst out. Nowadays any trip out, however small, seems to involve snacks, treats, a takeaway or coffee (I confess to being guilty of the last option!)

I agree about the point of sweets being given out in school for birthdays. That should be stopped. The last thing that young children need is more sweets. Birthdays are always happening, celebrate them outside of school.

Just out of interest what are schools serving food wise now? My kids went about 10 years ago and they used to eat total crap at school. Processed junk that they would have only had rarely at home

@dreamingofsun They’re still dire, judging by ours. Dominated by UPFs, pudding every day etc. A particular low point was the ‘chicken sausage’ in a dry UPF bun...

DD is the only one in her year group, apart from one autistic child with food sensory issues, to bring a packed lunch. She’s Year 1 and we’re in London, so meals are free. Lots of the parents are pretty affluent, but there’s a lot of ‘I’m not making them a lunch when there’s a free one at school’. Many families with two FT working parents who are very time-poor, so the convenience of the school food, however crap, always wins out against a packed lunch that you have to cobble together yourself.

I know we’re considered extremely precious by some of the other parents for withdrawing DD from the free school dinners, but we’re fortunate that we have the time, food knowledge and resources to provide her with something healthier.

Cheaper meat and produce often don't taste like anything and that's why children refuse to eat them.

That's absolute nonsense. There is more flavour in cheaper meat, not less.